Things Learned from LGBTQ+ Discussions

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

This is simply your sentiment. Many of the comments on these LGBT threads made me cringe. But I'm a prude right? And you have been progressively "enlightened," eh?

Andrew Breitbart once made a famous saying that "politics is downstream from culture." In other words politics merely follows the filth of culture, whether academia, media, entertainment, music, sports, etc., and LGBT is at the forefront of that culture.

Correct me if I’m wrong but are you saying that lgbtq are cringey and filthy? I thought we were friends

Anyways guys, we reached page 2 of this thread. Amazing!

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Weighingin

Often when people leave a Christian organization or system, whether they’re this or that, they no longer trust any organized group with its leadership. Yet they still love the Lord, they talk or fellowship with Him, and can bring all to Hin.

I find that it is often more important for the individual’s walk with God, regardless of whether they are in an organization or not. As long as two or more are gathered, Jesus is in our midst. And I find this thread similar to that, since we are gathering together virtually I think thi entire forum is like a church in it of itself, with believers from all places and situations gathered together

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Correct me if I’m wrong but are you saying that lgbtq are cringey and filthy? I thought we were friends

Not at all, just a reaction to an extreme comment by awareness.

[Weighingin]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I find that it is often more important for the individual’s walk with God, regardless of whether they are in an organization or not. As long as two or more are gathered, Jesus is in our midst. And I find this thread similar to that, since we are gathering together virtually I think thi entire forum is like a church in it of itself, with believers from all places and situations gathered together

After all these years, it still impresses me that the first shortage the Lord addresses is to the church in Ephesus. A worthy gathering, with works, labors, and endurance but “that you have left your first love.”

[Sons to Glory!]

, to change another's thinking

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Anyways guys, we reached page 2 of this thread. Amazing!

It is remarkable that we've reached 500 posts so quickly! (UntoHim - is there an award we're entitled to or sumptin? )

So for me, a thing learned - or relearned - from these discussions is once someone's mind is made up, it's pretty much set. That is true for whoever. People start thinking a certain way, then allow more thoughts to filter-in that align that way, then a vision of the thing is formed, then a stronghold develops in the mind. I have my stongholds; you have yours; everyone does. (we truly don't know what we don't know - but He does!)

Reasoning does little, usually, to change another's thinking. The best I think we can do is cite verses in love, and pray for one another. As was quoted before, "The battle is the Lord's!" (2 Chron 20:15)

And these days I'm seeing I really need His light. Without the True Light I can't see things as they are, and therefore don't want to give them up. But when He shines, I see how something really is and how ugly it is, then I understand its true nature and want to release it. He works the willingness in us in this way. Therefore light is paramount. Without His merciful shining, none of us will change, in a meaningful way, one iota.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

, to change another's thinkingIt is remarkable that we've reached 500 posts so quickly! (UntoHim - is there an award we're entitled to or sumptin? )

So for me, a thing learned - or relearned - from these discussions is once someone's mind is made up, it's pretty much set. That is true for whoever. People start thinking a certain way, then allow more thoughts to filter-in that align that way, then a vision of the thing is formed, then a stronghold develops in the mind. I have my stongholds; you have yours; everyone does. (we truly don't know what we don't know - but He does!)

Reasoning does little, usually, to change another's thinking. The best I think we can do is cite verses in love, and pray for one another. As was quoted before, "The battle is the Lord's!" (2 Chron 20:15)

And these days I'm seeing I really need His light. Without the True Light I can't see things as they are, and therefore don't want to give them up. But when He shines, I see how something really is and how ugly it is, then I understand its true nature and want to release it. He works the willingness in us in this way. Therefore light is paramount. Without His merciful shining, none of us will change, in a meaningful way, one iota.

Reason don't work where conclusions were drawn without it.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So for me, a thing learned - or relearned - from these discussions is once someone's mind is made up, it's pretty much set. That is true for whoever. People start thinking a certain way, then allow more thoughts to filter-in that align that way, then a vision of the thing is formed, then a stronghold develops in the mind. I have my strongholds; you have yours; everyone does.

Not that I'm disagreeing with your "learning" here, but I can name a good number of long-held "strongholds" which I dropped back in the 00's. And I should mention that I was ~50 years old when I left, and my mind had been made for 30 years. But then I learned things that changed me. Changed my views, changed my mind, changed my "vision." Pretty radical, eh?

My strongest views are those rooted in facts and truth, time-tested via trials, and thoroughly examined. For example, my commitment to the Recovery was definitely time tested via trials, but unfortunately not completely based on facts and the truth.

I could also mention a number of social/political/cultural views that have also transitioned over time.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Not that I'm disagreeing with your "learning" here, but I can name a good number of long-held "strongholds" which I dropped back in the 00's. And I should mention that I was ~50 years old when I left, and my mind had been made for 30 years. But then I learned things that changed me. Changed my views, changed my mind, changed my "vision." Pretty radical, eh?

My strongest views are those rooted in facts and truth, time-tested via trials, and thoroughly examined. For example, my commitment to the Recovery was definitely time tested via trials, but unfortunately not completely based on facts and the truth.

I could also mention a number of social/political/cultural views that have also transitioned over time.

So there was light?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So there was light?

Sometimes "light" comes in the form of research, fact-finding, information gathering, human maturity, responding to abuses, soul-searching, wilderness experiences, prayer, changing one's spiritual "diet," honest discussions, etc. the list is long.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Sometimes "light" comes in the form of research, fact-finding, information gathering, human maturity, responding to abuses, soul-searching, wilderness experiences, prayer, changing one's spiritual "diet," honest discussions, etc. the list is long.

So research works for you? Before, you mentioned you thought that reserach can be biased. On that note, what have you learned from this particular thread?
I learned that due to our differing worldviews, there can be different scriptural and spiritual interpretations from both sides that can both be valid. Human sexuality is complex and we each have to have God shine on each of us. I learned a lot from all of you and where each of you come from, even if I dont agree with some points made, it was still eye opening and overall positive experience.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I learned that due to our differing worldviews, there can be different scriptural and spiritual interpretations from both sides that can both be valid. Human sexuality is complex and we each have to have God shine on each of us. I learned a lot from all of you and where each of you come from, even if I dont agree with some points made, it was still eye opening and overall positive experience.

Thanks! That's what I was hoping for. I do have to say that while I've known some gay folks, I haven't had this level of communication with them, and certainly not from a Christian perspective. Therefore I appreciate this.

And of course, there really is only one truth as this comes from God and is the reality. We are all seeking Him so that He can show us what this is - may He shine on each of us!

[awareness]

I learned nothing from the clobber verses. I've know them for most of my life.

I did learn many other alternative views, and they are much esteemed.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by awareness

I learned nothing from the clobber verses. I've know them for most of my life.

I did learn many other alternative views, and they are much esteemed.

I think the main issue is that people back then did not have enough information about human sexuality being on a spectrum. The writers of the bible did not have complete divine inspiration from God, dictating them and teaching them about science and all. You can compare their experiences today’s believers. They can recieve some divine inspiration from God but are they flawed as human beings? Or course, it’s not a straight point A to point B. All of our writings are subjective despite how much God has inspired us. Examples- compare Joe Dallas’s writing to Justin Lee’s writing. Compare Gerrard Conley’s testimony to that of Rosario Butterfield. They all have very contrasting stories/experiences, being lgbtq and following the Lord. History repeats itself, so it’s not a wild jump to say that not all people (contemporary and ancient) had varying viewpoints on social issues.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

So research works for you? Before, you mentioned you thought that reserach can be biased. On that note, what have you learned from this particular thread?

I learned that my views closely match Trapped's.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I learned that my views closely match Trapped's.

Trapped and I matched on the trinity thread ... but maybe not so much on this thread. I have to wait and see what he has to say.

[SerenityLives]

Guys this question popped up to me randomly when I was talking to God. Why dont people recognize there’s an adultery agenda when they claim there’s a gay agenda? After all, divorce was legal way before same sex marriage. People are scared that same sex rights redefine the definition of marriage but so does divorce. And yet it seems more culturally accepted, even in some Christian circles People also fear that gay movement is a prologue to peophilia freedom. But what came before all this? Divorce. And to add something else, if a wife was raped by her husband, there was not legal ramification for this.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Guys this question popped up to me randomly when I was talking to God. Why dont people recognize there’s an adultery agenda when they claim there’s a gay agenda? After all, divorce was legal way before same sex marriage. People are scared that same sex rights redefine the definition of marriage but so does divorce. And yet it seems more culturally accepted, even in some Christian circles People also fear that gay movement is a prologue to peophilia freedom. But what came before all this? Divorce. And to add something else, if a wife was raped by her husband, there was not legal ramification for this.

Plain and simple persecuting gays is not Christian.

[Weighingin]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Guys this question popped up to me randomly when I was talking to God. Why dont people recognize there’s an adultery agenda when they claim there’s a gay agenda? After all, divorce was legal way before same sex marriage. People are scared that same sex rights redefine the definition of marriage but so does divorce. And yet it seems more culturally accepted, even in some Christian circles People also fear that gay movement is a prologue to peophilia freedom. But what came before all this? Divorce. And to add something else, if a wife was raped by her husband, there was not legal ramification for this.

Beginning with Matthew 19:3 and ending with 19:11, the Lord does speak about the matter of divorce after some Pharisees asked Him.
19:8 states that Moses allowed divorce because of their hardness of heart, but in the beginning, it was not so.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Weighingin

Beginning with Matthew 19:3 and ending with 19:11, the Lord does speak about the matter of divorce after some Pharisees asked Him.
19:8 states that Moses allowed divorce because of their hardness of heart, but in the beginning, it was not so.

So there is less stigma because divorce was mentioned and sorta approved by Moses and Jesus. Still doesnt sound right

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

So there is less stigma because divorce was mentioned and sorta approved by Moses and Jesus. Still doesnt sound right

Did they have to get a marriage certificate from the city hall in Rome, or Jerusalem?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by awareness

Did they have to get a marriage certificate from the city hall in Rome, or Jerusalem?

No dummy, they gave each other perfect pebbles to demonstrate their loyalty and officially like penguins. btw, there ARE gay penguins and they mate for life

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Guys this question popped up to me randomly when I was talking to God. Why dont people recognize there’s an adultery agenda ...?

Had trouble following your thought here, but many have addressed the assault on marriage and the family for decades. Hollywood long has glamorized and justified infidelity and promoted the thrills of romance. It's an obvious agenda.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

No dummy, they gave each other perfect pebbles to demonstrate their loyalty and officially like penguins. btw, there ARE gay penguins and they mate for life

You've been reading Biological Exuberance, dummy -

[awareness]

Biological Exuberance is a 768 page book providing many accounts and examples of homosexuality in the animal kingdom.

What strikes me right off is "Biological." In other words, the flesh. There's no wonder we Christians hate the flesh. It's filthy. If we all stopped bathing and shaving it would be more than obvious.

We hate that our biology -- the flesh -- rules over us. I hate having to figure out what to eat every day., and staying hydrated, and much much more of the daily demands of the flesh.

But hey! Our body is deeply involved in loving. Love can tingle our body from our head to our toes, not to mention all of the other bodily functions during "knowing" each other. This is one of the 613 laws in the Torah, one of the good ones : "be fruitful and multiply." Our body, our flesh, loves it. Is that why it's bad? Or is it because it has to do with sewage exit points?

I think biology determines our sexual orientation. And we can't do any thing about it, any more than we can do anything about its need for water. We don't choose what our biology produces in us, and its demands.

And if God is behind biology, it begs the question why? Why does God need gay critters ... and humans?

According to the Bible, sometimes God doesn't seem to consult His omniscience, but it can't be true for the big picture. And in His omniscience, the fall figured into God's grand plan, therefore the biology today figures into it.

And love has to have something to do with it. "God so loved the world." Our body loves it. Our biology directs it. So God directs it and loves it. And sometimes, God/biology directs gayness. He, it, just does. There's nothing wrong with it any more than drinking water.

Therefore I see absolutely no reason that Christians can't show abundant love and acceptance to gays ... as God/biology made them.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Therefore I see absolutely no reason that Christians can't show abundant love and acceptance to gays ... as God/biology made them.

Christians show abundant love and acceptance to all people, otherwise there would be no homeless ministries, prison ministries, foreign missions, orphanages, nursing homes, etc. Didn't God make them all?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Christians show abundant love and acceptance to all people, otherwise there would be no homeless ministries, prison ministries, foreign missions, orphanages, nursing homes, etc. Didn't God make them all?

But their gay ministries are conversion therapy.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Had trouble following your thought here, but many have addressed the assault on marriage and the family for decades. Hollywood long has glamorized and justified infidelity and promoted the thrills of romance. It's an obvious agenda.

Yes but people dont fight against the “adultery” agenda as strongly as they do towards the gays. If someone in church said they divorced and had sexual relations with another person, they dont get the same treatment as someone who comes out as gay in church. That gay person would be sent to conversion therapy and shown a bunch of verses condemning their “lifestyle”. In the old testament, both kinds are stoned to death, so I dont get the logic or fairness of treating one group differently than the other in today’s society.

Example- there’s infidelity and people getting divorced all the time in denominations but what happens to them? Theyre still able to meet. Then there’s lgbtq, they get kicked out, defrocked and deflocked, excommunicated, shunned by their own families.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by awareness

But their gay ministries are conversion therapy.

Gay ministries just lead to higher suicidal rates in youth. Unconditional Love shouldnt contribute to leading one to kill themself. Gay ministries are not up to date with scientific approaches or psychological evidence based methodologies. They just follow the Book and base the whole boot camp on verses and funny things like, naming your childhood traumas or wearing “sex appropriate clothing”. Just read Garrard Conley’s memoir on his experience in one of these boot camps. His parents had to eventually take him out because he was on the brink of suicide. If God meant for his Book to lead to these results, I dont know if I want to know that God.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Yes but people dont fight against the “adultery” agenda as strongly as they do towards the gays. If someone in church said they divorced and had sexual relations with another person, they dont get the same treatment as someone who comes out as gay in church. That gay person would be sent to conversion therapy and shown a bunch of verses condemning their “lifestyle”. In the old testament, both kinds are stoned to death, so I dont get the logic or fairness of treating one group differently than the other in today’s society.

Example- there’s infidelity and people getting divorced all the time in denominations but what happens to them? Theyre still able to meet. Then there’s lgbtq, they get kicked out, defrocked and deflocked, excommunicated, shunned by their own families.

I think you are projecting your own LC experience. Few churches are as strict and archaic as oriental LC's or muslam mosques.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

But their gay ministries are conversion therapy.

It's so typical of you to characterize the whole based on bad examples.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

It's so typical of you to characterize the whole based on bad examples.

And typical of you to cover them up.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I think you are projecting your own LC experience. Few churches are as strict and archaic as oriental LC's or muslam mosques.

I went to a lot of other denominations after I left the LC

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I went to a lot of other denominations after I left the LC

There's over 33,000 Christian sects, and most of them don't get along with LGBTQ.

Basically, religion is in the way of equal rights for LGBTQ. Like the case in the supreme court today, between Philadelphia and the Catholic's. Philadelphia contracts agencies for foster care, but they can't discriminate against gay couples. The Catholic agencies say it violates their constitutional right to the free exercise of religion.

So they are claiming that their religion calls for discrimination against LGBTQ.

I don't see why Christians can't love and accept the gays, but the Catholic church disagrees (like they have any room to be critical).

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by awareness

So they are claiming that their religion calls for discrimination against LGBTQ.

Discrimination is not love. Period. Ever.

[SerenityLives]

Trigger warning: True story- my spouse came home tonight and reported to me that one of her patients died. (she works as a dialysis nurse). He was a young gay man in his forties. None of his direct family members (who are Christian) ever visited, and were not even present at his deathbed. Only his friends (Ohio’s LGBT comrades) were there. He was a barber and always was a kind in the dialysis center. Never once did he complain. My wife said the ones that complained the most included a Jehovah Witness man and a Trump supporter. (not saying that all JW and Trump supporters behave that way, just in this story)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Trigger warning: True story- my spouse came home tonight and reported to me that one of her patients died. (she works as a dialysis nurse). He was a young gay man in his forties. None of his direct family members (who are Christian) ever visited, and were not even present at his deathbed. Only his friends (Ohio’s LGBT comrades) were there. He was a barber and always was a kind in the dialysis center. Never once did he complain. My wife said the ones that complained the most included a Jehovah Witness man and a Trump supporter. (not saying that all JW and Trump supporters behave that way, just in this story)

My religion doesn't allow a gay nurse to save my life.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Trigger warning: True story- my spouse came home tonight and reported to me that one of her patients died. (she works as a dialysis nurse). He was a young gay man in his forties. None of his direct family members (who are Christian) ever visited, and were not even present at his deathbed. Only his friends (Ohio’s LGBT comrades) were there. He was a barber and always was a kind in the dialysis center. Never once did he complain. My wife said the ones that complained the most included a Jehovah Witness man and a Trump supporter. (not saying that all JW and Trump supporters behave that way, just in this story)

That appears to be a sad testimony to how little Christ is living through the ones that did not visit him . . .

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

That appears to be a sad testimony to how little Christ is living through the ones that did not visit him . . .

Most of the Christian churches I've attended here in Kentucky have lost track of Jesus. They're more hung on the Bible.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Most of the Christian churches I've attended here in Kentucky have lost track of Jesus. They're more hung on the Bible.

But you also have admitted that your "Jesus" is quite a bit different than theirs.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

But you also have admitted that your "Jesus" is quite a bit different than theirs.

I do admit that. My Jesus is loving.

But you missed my point ; that they aren't hung on Jesus, they're hung on the Bible.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

I do admit that. My Jesus is loving.

But you missed my point ; that they aren't hung on Jesus, they're hung on the Bible.

Great that your Jesus is loving . . . because He is!

Regarding the 2nd thing - I see a lot of that too. That is, all the answers are in the written word, but little focus on His indwelling operation.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

I do admit that. My Jesus is loving.

But you missed my point ; that they aren't hung on Jesus, they're hung on the Bible.

I get it. They are "hung up" on all those verses you don't like.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I get it. They are "hung up" on all those verses you don't like.

You're distorting my point.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

You're distorting my point.

I was simply providing clarification for our readers.


How can you say that "your Jesus is loving," and then question the text and the authorship of the Bible? Can't have it both ways.

[awareness]

I guess my point is, that, those that have lost track of Jesus, cuz they're instead hooked on the Bible, are those less likely to exhibit love toward the LGBTQ ... and to use the clobber verses against them.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I was simply providing clarification for our readers.


How can you say that "your Jesus is loving," and then question the text and the authorship of the Bible? Can't have it both ways.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with questioning the text and authorship of the Bible. Scholars have been doing it since the canonization of the books of the Bible.

But for those that must hold the Bible as more important than the teachings of Jesus :

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Haven't you ever been on a discussion board with 2 conversations going on at once? Yes, I do think that awareness's blasphemous comments about God should not go unchallenged. I think it is he who derails discussions, not me, and I have said so. Perhaps you are not bothered by them, and that's fine too. But I am. It's a Christian forum, isn't it? Do we believe in God and the Bible or not?

From the beginning I took another course of discussion. Instead of taking the normal path and using the Bible verses to say how LGBT is sin, I decided to examine it from a societal view. My posts also went unanswered, specifically what are the long term damages that the trans movement will have on society?

Neither of these are "rabbit holes" to me.

Since you started this thread, why don't you state some guidelines for discussion, that way you won't get offended like serenity and awareness when someone like me inadvertently steps on your toes and you demand this thread be shut down. So far we have discussed the following:

• Slandering God and defending Him
• Allegations of LGBT persecutions and hoaxes
• Dangers of Trans on women
• Claims by the Moderator that these posts are garbage
• God truly loves the LGBT but hates the sin, just as he loves all sinners but still hates their sin
• Effects of alcohol on people
• Mistreatment of Blacks in criminal justice system

This person knows what the Bible says about LGBTQ, but they want to discredit it by pointing out the sins of other people. Last time I checked, if we are being tried in court for a crime we committed, telling the judge about the crimes of other people won’t get us off the hook.

I had the same excuses for many years about my alcoholism. I’m an adult. I’m not hurting anyone. I’m married. I’m not whoring around when I drink. I’m in control over this.
Then God had to show me who is actually in control. And it’s Him. And His word saying it’s a sin should’ve been enough of a reason for me to care. Sadly it wasn’t. The same verses in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 that condemn homosexuality condemned me. So I’m not judging. God had to remove the plank out of my eye, and He did. Glory to God!

But it all boils down to this...the ENTIRE BIBLE, OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT ARE THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD AND THE BASIS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH. I know you know this because of a conversation I’ve had with you before. The choice is ours to decide whether or not we care about what it says. And it is a BAD choice not to. Either we believe it all, or not at all. But we shouldn’t use the name of the Lord in vain (false belief). There’s not an in between. We are not God, and He is not shaped by our opinions, though false theology and mysticism have those teachings. False belief (rejecting any part of the Bible as true) isn’t salvation. God knows who believes and who doesn’t. No fooling Him.

Jesus’ blood is the only justification for sin in the Bible. We can’t explain our way out of it. Or try to be good in every other area. You can’t repent for a sin you’re proud of. So hopefully He will be merciful enough to humble the people fighting against His word who call themselves Christian. Whom He loves He chastens. Don’t fight God. You’ll lose. LGBT people on this post, you might get angry about what I’m saying and say that I don’t understand. You may be right about me not understanding bc I’m not gay, but do not think I’m saying this out of hatred. I love you guys, I’m just not willing to affirm your lifestyle in saying that God approves. That would be a very unloving thing for me to do. Seek God’s will for your life in His word. Pray for Him to show you a new life in Him. When you put your faith in what His word says, and act in obedience, He will increase your faith. You’d be surprised the mountains He can move in your life if you just trust in His plan. I can tell you it’s better. He cares for you. He wants to make His home in your heart and give you peace, the peace that comes from living a life that pleases God. It’s written all over His word His desire to have your heart. Jesus died so that we can be born again. Walk with Him and talk with Him. He longs for that relationship.

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Gay ministries just lead to higher suicidal rates in youth. Unconditional Love shouldnt contribute to leading one to kill themself. Gay ministries are not up to date with scientific approaches or psychological evidence based methodologies. They just follow the Book and base the whole boot camp on verses and funny things like, naming your childhood traumas or wearing “sex appropriate clothing”. Just read Garrard Conley’s memoir on his experience in one of these boot camps. His parents had to eventually take him out because he was on the brink of suicide. If God meant for his Book to lead to these results, I dont know if I want to know that God.

You don’t know God. If you knew who He really is, you’d want to know Him more. It’s not the church’s job to make people love and accept God, and make them turn away from homosexuality. All they can do is try and guide others to faith and to obedience. But obeying makes no sense when they don’t have faith. Faith is personal, and it requires a soft heart. It doesn’t matter how much a preacher “brings it” when a person is hanging on to bitterness or is unwilling to deal with sin and see it as sinful. Affirmation of sin is not acceptable to God. In God’s eyes we are guilty if we even approve. Not approving is not the same as hating. We don’t (at least I don’t) affirm cheaters, liars, alcoholics, sexual immorality, drug use, abuse, filthy music/tv/jokes, gossip, etc either.

It is not our fault that gay youth commit suicide. Especially if it is because we take our time to help them instead of pushing them out altogether. The bottom line is, choices. God always calls us to make a choice. If in faith we come to believe and obey Him, He magnifies our faith, and we are able to overcome so much more through Him. When we see the results of the application of God’s word it really drives our faith. If we don’t choose Him, it is like drowning in the ocean and passing up a life boat. It will be His mercy if He sends another boat when we can’t tread the water anymore. Sadly, people reject boat after boat and choose to drown.

It’s entirely up to you what you do or don’t do with God’s word. I point to the Scripture so much because without it we would all pretend that God is not wrathful, and that He doesn’t care when we take whatever path we choose and journey to Hell. We need to know how He actually is if we are professing worship. That only makes sense. The Scripture shows His will for our lives in Genesis, shows how He reveals Himself, tells us His expectations, shows how He is wrathful when we choose false gods (gods we make up out of our imagination, not the Bible), His mercy, and all the fulfilled prophecy that was witnessed in history. If Jesus were physically in your living room right now, I guarantee He wouldn’t tell you He’s cool with homosexuality.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You don’t know God. If you knew who He really is, you’d want to know Him more. It’s not the church’s job to make people love and accept God, and make them turn away from homosexuality. All they can do is try and guide others to faith and to obedience. But obeying makes no sense when they don’t have faith. Faith is personal, and it requires a soft heart. It doesn’t matter how much a preacher “brings it” when a person is hanging on to bitterness or is unwilling to deal with sin and see it as sinful. Affirmation of sin is not acceptable to God. In God’s eyes we are guilty if we even approve. Not approving is not the same as hating. We don’t (at least I don’t) affirm cheaters, liars, alcoholics, sexual immorality, drug use, abuse, filthy music/tv/jokes, gossip, etc either.
It is not our fault that gay youth commit suicide. Especially if it is because we take our time to help them instead of pushing them out altogether.

It’s entirely up to you what you do or don’t do with God’s word. I point to the Scripture so much because without it we would all pretend that God is not wrathful, and that He doesn’t care when we take whatever path we choose and journey to Hell. We need to know how He actually is if we are professing worship. That only makes sense. The Scripture shows His will for our lives in Genesis, shows how He reveals Himself, tells us His expectations, shows how He is wrathful when we choose false gods (gods we make up out of our imagination, not the Bible), His mercy, and all the fulfilled prophecy that was witnessed in history. If Jesus were physically in your living room right now, I guarantee He wouldn’t tell you He’s cool with homosexuality.

This is an example of a guy who uses the Bible more than Jesus’s love. I would disagree with you. You have no guarantee over what Jesus would think about homosexuality. Because he is not here. On this forum.
You claim that I do not know God. You are claiming that on the basis of my remarks on this forum but you do not know me

“obeying makes no sense when we dont have faith”. Faith and obedience are two different things. You can have faith in God and end up obeying him but does that lead to right choices?- Take a look at Abraham’s faith in God and he almost killed his own son.

“Not approving is not the same as hating”. Well not approving means you are not accepting of the person which is a form of social rejection. Social rejection is a form of hate. There you have it. Bullying is hate. Ostracization is hate. These have all been examples of how some Christians treat lgbtq community. Even animals are better than us. They do not have homophobia. What does this say about God’s fallen creatures? Or how He apponted Man to be better than angels and other creatures. It is sad reality we live in today that we have to resort to all this when animals treat their homo pals better than we do for each other. Your “light” does not help, it just leads to more pain for the lgbtq. I’m sorry, but thats the truth. And condoning irresponsibility for the lives of others, that is just ..I have no words ��

Abuse of lgbtq is what you are doing on here with your words of ignorance, and God wont approve of that, as you so claimed that God does not approve of any abuse.

“It is not our fault that gay youth commit suicide”. Boy you are so blind to all the coversion therapy going on- Christians telling gays they’re sin is not loving and you are clearly on the side of all the abusers.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This person knows what the Bible says about LGBTQ, but they want to discredit it by pointing out the sins of other people. Last time I checked, if we are being tried in court for a crime we committed, telling the judge about the crimes of other people won’t get us off the hook.
I had the same excuses for many years about my alcoholism. I’m an adult. I’m not hurting anyone. I’m married. I’m not whoring around when I drink. I’m in control over this.
Then God had to show me who is actually in control. And it’s Him. And His word saying it’s a sin should’ve been enough of a reason for me to care. Sadly it wasn’t. The same verses in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 that condemn homosexuality condemned me. So I’m not judging. God had to remove the plank out of my eye, and He did. Glory to God!
. There’s not an in between. We are not God, and He is not shaped by our opinions, though false theology and mysticism have those. .

Being gay is not a lifestyle. It is not choosing to wear certain clothing and parade around in the streets. Last time you checked, did you choose to be heterosexual? Did you choose to fall in love with your mate? Did you choose the color of your skin, the shade of your eyes? How you’re born with one heart? If you do not fully embrace the personhood of that person, it is denying that person altogether. God does not like that. “love the sinner, hate the sin” is akin to “I see you and love you, but not as a whole person” and “I love you, but not completely.”

It is true we are not God, so why do we have to constrict him into just one book, the Bible. The bible is not black and white. The world is not black and white. If you do not think in shades of gray, I feel bad for you, the world is full of color. Many passages in the bible contradict each other.

You did not read the entire thread, alcoholism cannot be compared to homosexuality for reasons stated earlier with Sons of Glory’s examples.

You too judge other people’s sins but we are all sinners. “telling the judge about other crimes wont get you off the hook”. depends on the situation. If someone was in mental retardation due to medically induced by another person when they commited the crime, that needs to be taken into account. If the murdered were raping or abusing a child, and the child kills them, that needs to be taken into account. So your analysis doesnt work bro.

Me too I am married, and I dont fool around when drunk. I’m not hurting anyone either. It seems like we’re tied bro.

Originally Posted by awareness

And typical of you to cover them up.

Oooo. Ohio got burned. Love this thread. Please keep up with the juicy details.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If we don’t choose Him, it is like drowning in the ocean and passing up a life boat. It will be His mercy if He sends another boat when we can’t tread the water anymore. Sadly, people reject boat after boat and choose to drown.
It’s entirely up to you what you do or don’t do with God’s word. I point to the Scripture so much because without it we would all pretend that God is not wrathful, and that He doesn’t care when we take whatever path we choose and journey to Hell..

I like your boat analogy so im gonna use it in a different way. Remember the Titanic? So the “privileged” are the goody Christians who get all the lifeboats. The lgbtq are the poor who got condemned and who have to stay on the sinking ship and get drowned. The Bible is the Iceberg. It looks benign on top of the water but underneath, it gets very huge and dangerous. The captain of the ship is the church accidently ramming the entire ship (which is so divided) into the iceberg. Meanwhile the God that Christians believe in is the engineer of the ship and forgot to include the evacuation plan and did not plan for the Iceberg to be so big. But he is sovereign, thats why everyone gets baptized in the frigid cold water, but some die nevertheless because of that goddamn iceberg and miscaluculations of the captain and his crew, and inevitably God the engineer.

Btw Hell was a concept that originated in the medieval times for the Catholic Church to control the masses through fear. Brush up on your history of Christianity IN ADDITION to the formation of the bible that exists today. Go read those bloody infancy gospels and non canonical books. Then come back and we can talk more

You’re mad because you’re passionate about your life. Guess what? We are all born to sin. The difference is some of us take the word of God seriously and apply it to our lives. You’re mad at God, not me, because His word is the only reason I would ever say any of this to you. Interesting that you use the Titanic. You are like Rose. You had a choice to get on the life boat and you were on it, but you jumped back on the sinking ship for Jack. And the ship sank. When the lifeboat came back around looking for cold souls, you knew you had to let go of Jack to go get the whistle and call the lifeboat. That’s where you’re at now, holding on to Jack. Once you truly get rescued, you’re not ditching the life boat and diving to the ocean floor for Jack. That’s why you say gd on a Christian forum, think God blesses you in your marriage outside of His will, and dismiss the Bible, looking for a way around what it says elsewhere. You worship yourself or your concept of who you wish God was. Which is idolatry. I’m here in hopes that you at least recognize that you’re sinning and that it’s not His will just because He hasn’t struck you dead over it. There’s a difference between God allowing something and it being His will. He’s merciful enough that you hear the truth. I was you. I did all of that. That’s how I know for a fact. I may not be gay, but I have a sinful nature just like everyone else. Gay people aren’t as unique as you like to think they are.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” —-that’s what you’re doing. You’re questioning what’s been written, but it’s your sin making deceiving you. God allows that for a period of time, however your denial won’t justify you. Only the God of the Bible can justify you, but you have to actually believe Him first, which I’m here to say you don’t. The proof is that you’re here denying what His word says. Don’t bother telling me I’m judging or any of that other lukewarm stuff bc I’m here giving you a solid message and it’s true.
Rev 3:15-16 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—-neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
John 3:16 is the good news. But it’s bad news for false believers. Check your belief.

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Being gay is not a lifestyle. It is not choosing to wear certain clothing and parade around in the streets. Last time you checked, did you choose to be heterosexual? Did you choose to fall in love with your mate? Did you choose the color of your skin, the shade of your eyes? How you’re born with one heart? If you do not fully embrace the personhood of that person, it is denying that person altogether. God does not like that. “love the sinner, hate the sin” is akin to “I see you and love you, but not as a whole person” and “I love you, but not completely.”

It is true we are not God, so why do we have to constrict him into just one book, the Bible. The bible is not black and white. The world is not black and white. If you do not think in shades of gray, I feel bad for you, the world is full of color. Many passages in the bible contradict each other.

You did not read the entire thread, alcoholism cannot be compared to homosexuality for reasons stated earlier with Sons of Glory’s examples.

You too judge other people’s sins but we are all sinners. “telling the judge about other crimes wont get you off the hook”. depends on the situation. If someone was in mental retardation due to medically induced by another person when they commited the crime, that needs to be taken into account. If the murdered were raping or abusing a child, and the child kills them, that needs to be taken into account. So your analysis doesnt work bro.

Me too I am married, and I dont fool around when drunk. I’m not hurting anyone either. It seems like we’re tied bro.

If you do not fully embrace the personality of God, it’s denying God altogether. “Love God, hate His word” is akin to “I love you but not fully”. Your words are very telling of your spiritual state. I will not bow down to Satan in order to affirm anyone in their sin. I am willing to walk with people and show them Biblically what it means to follow God, and they can be of any walk of life when I disciple them, however I will not love a person to death. You lie to yourself enough; and plenty of the rest of the world has no problem affirming you. I’m not calling God a liar for anyone.

By the way, we aren’t tied. One day by the grace of God, I took His word for it that drinking was a sin; and I gave my sin over to Him, and He saved me for real that day. I stopped fighting Him and stopped believing it was in God’s will for me to be an alcoholic. That’s what I meant when I said He removed the plank from my eye. I didn’t come asking the church to tell me it’s okay. Do you see the absurdity In what you’re saying yet? A loving church would help me see the importance in rehabilitation.

You don’t seem mentally retarded to me, so I’m missing your point on justification through the sins of others. Who are you over here blaming that would make you right? Accountability is key to repentance.
“Take up your cross and walk”. I’m sure you’ve heard it. Think about what it means. It means die to our sin to follow Jesus. Jesus said it. Do you believe Him? If you don’t, what even is your faith? The Bible isn’t inconsistent. Your mysticism is all over the place though. That’s why you say the Bible is a gd iceberg. Your words. You honk you’re saved but I sense I’m talking to a satanist. This isn’t your fault. It’s because you were taught lies. That’s why God’s word is so important. It’s the unchanging truth.

Once upon a time when I got out of the church of ‘God is your feelings’ I heard a message that really pissed me off. But I see the love in it now and I’ll never forget that person or the message. The truth sets you free. Half the truth is a lie still. God didn’t forget the escape plan. We forgot it was necessary. We didn’t think we needed the life boats bc we had this unsinkable ship.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You’re mad because you’re passionate about your life. Guess what? We are all born to sin. The difference is some of us take the word of God seriously and apply it to our lives. You’re mad at God, not me, because His word is the only reason I would ever say any of this to you. Interesting that you use the Titanic. You are like Rose. You had a choice to get on the life boat and you were on it, but you jumped back on the sinking ship for Jack. And the ship sank. When the lifeboat came back around looking for cold souls, you knew you had to let go of Jack to go get the whistle and call the lifeboat. That’s where you’re at now, holding on to Jack. Once you truly get rescued, you’re not ditching the life boat and diving to the ocean floor for Jack. That’s why you say gd on a Christian forum, think God blesses you in your marriage outside of His will, and dismiss the Bible, looking for a way around what it says elsewhere. You worship yourself or your concept of who you wish God was. Which is idolatry. I’m here in hopes that you at least recognize that you’re sinning and that it’s not His will just because He hasn’t struck you dead over it. There’s a difference between God allowing something and it being His will. He’s merciful enough that you hear the truth. I was you. I did all of that. That’s how I know for a fact. I may not be gay, but I have a sinful nature just like everyone else. Gay people aren’t as unique as you like to think they are.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” —-that’s what you’re doing. You’re questioning what’s been written, but it’s your sin making deceiving you. God allows that for a period of time, however your denial won’t justify you. Only the God of the Bible can justify you, but you have to actually believe Him first, which I’m here to say you don’t. The proof is that you’re here denying what His word says. Don’t bother telling me I’m judging or any of that other lukewarm stuff bc I’m here giving you a solid message and it’s true.
Rev 3:15-16 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—-neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
Rev 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
John 3:16 is the good news. But it’s bad news for false believers. Check your belief.

Okay Mr. or Misses Bible clobberer. When I was young I use to fall for those claiming to be speaking for God. I was naive, and I eventually caught on that I was taken in by them. I eventually learned that those claiming to speak for God are full of it.

Now I usually ignore them. But sometimes I speak out against them, with an angry retort. But only toward those I care about. So no retort, or exegesis of your Bible interpretations, for you, that I don't know from Adam's cat. Serenity is more than able to address your so called speakings for God.

Straight from the word of God is where I will always go back to. I’m not claiming to speak for God. He spoke already in His word and I’m choosing it over your Gnosticism and falsehood. I usually ignore people too, until they weasel into church forums with lies and expect people with actual faith to affirm them. The word of God doesn’t lie. If you think it does,but you expect to pull the grace card when you stand before Him, you’re a false believer. Period. I’d rather offend you with the truth 100 times than offend God once with affirming your lie. The devil believes the Bible more than you do. You’re lucky someone cared enough to hold a mirror for you to see your true spiritual condition, since you’re not willing to see the Bible as that mirror. Y’all worship something, but it’s not God. You’ll be double minded in everything you do living in false belief. Your best bet is to throw everything away that you think God is and read His word to see who He actually is....if you are over here claiming faith, claiming you’re saved. I’ll make you mad now, and I’ll make you mad any time you ask me to bow to Satan and I say no. But one day, if you’re in the Book of Life, you’ll actually understand. I hope sooner than later you stop criticizing the word of God and start observing yourself. Look up the satanic commandments and see what they say, and see if you align with them. There will be a really check waiting for you on the church of Satan website.

[SerenityLives]

Unregistered,

You have to know you are on an Alternative views part of the forum. If you want the main Christian forum, it’s upstairs with the rest. You might need to check your anger. Stop judging me. You cast the first stone and I am only replying to your stones. I hear you loud and clear already on your four massive essays so no need to repeat them btw it’s low of you to call me Satanist or anything like that. Cool down. Go read the bible. I think you need it more than me.

No name calling, look at the forum rules
Cant call me a Satanist even if you believe it. Dont call me a weasel when you are unregistered and just happen to start a conversation here

Im sorry to say you have no hope here in converting me. I already made up my mind that I’m not sinning, if you at least read through most of the posts here, I believe homosexuality is not “off the mark”.

I dont believe the Bible is God-inspired completely. Can you please at least be respectful of my beliefs? we’re on alternative views again, if you didnt catch that the first time.

Back to the Titanic analogy. I dont need a Jack, I have another Rose. and we both happen to survive

Btw I’m not mad, I dont know where you get that from. I just find you a very entertaining addition to this thread

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Im sorry to say you have no hope here in converting me. I already made up my mind that I’m not sinning, if you at least read through most of the posts here, I believe homosexuality is not “off the mark”.
I dont believe the Bible is God-inspired completely. Can you please at least be respectful of my beliefs? we’re on alternative views again, if you didnt catch that the first time.

Back to the Titanic analogy.

Then who gets to choose which parts of the Bible are inspired, and which are not? Who gets to decide which parts of the Bible we discard as objectionable? And if we no longer accept the Bible as God's message to us, then do we really have any assurance that we can know what God is really like?

If we decide to go down this slippery slope, then who decides who gets to survive the sinking Titanic? Are not then all of us like the atheists, making up our own standards of behavior. If there is no after life, then it's all just a matter of not getting caught, right?

I heard some states just legalized psychedelic mushrooms. What fun that will be when a generation of hallucinators start passing new laws. Some of them already believe that looting and burning others' property are justified "reparations" for past evils.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Your best bet is to throw everything away that you think God is and read His word to see who He actually is....

Sounds to me like you've never read the entire Bible.

I’m sad for you that scripture is entertainment for you. Notice how I haven’t even focused on your homosexuality, but your false belief. Without accepting God’s word as truth, how can you say you believe in Him? When you deny your sins, you deny your reliance on the cross for salvation. I know for a fact I need the blood of Jesus to cover me and have no problem admitting I’m wrong and He’s right. “I believe you God, I just don’t trust what you say when it convicts me. I’m not sinning according to my feelings. So I don’t need you.”

I get fired up about the Lord now, and I’m not mowed over by opinions and interpretation from people who don’t even believe Him. I was like you and I got corrected sternly. Think about this. Do you think when I get to heaven God is going to be angry with me for taking His word too seriously and trusted Him too much, or is it the people who ignored Him who are going to have the problems? If you consider the truth a rock, I threw one at you. The solid rock I stand on. I’ll go ahead and assume you believe that part of the Bible. How about when Jesus told her to go and sin no more. Do you have an alternative interpretation for that? I’m removing your excuses. I've had them. They didn’t serve me or God. I know you don’t want to validate the whole word of God because it would make you wrong. It’s your willingness to be wrong that will save you. If you ask God to help you with your unbelief, He will do it.

You might not like me, but my hope is that you doubt your salvation. Not so that you are damned to Hell, but so that you search for God in His word, and put your trust in Him. You and Rose both. He can turn your unbelief into radical faith when you come to Him like a child, humble and honest.

Seems you’re a touch slow.@ awareness

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then who gets to choose which parts of the Bible are inspired, and which are not? Who gets to decide which parts of the Bible we discard as objectionable? And if we no longer accept the Bible as God's message to us, then do we really have any assurance that we can know what God is really like? .

Th fact is they were cherry picked by the Council of Rome and Council of Trent. The book of Hebrews almost didnt make it into the Bible, and Reveleation went in and out like a yoyo based on how the ancients decided which books were inspired or not. You’ll have to ask them in the afterlife how they came to their conclusions. Did God inspire them to choose the ones that became the canon?

Here’s a full history on it - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibl...ristian_canons

So in answer to your question, it was already decided before we were born, by the ancients. And the books that didnt make it into the bible, they depict God differently. Thats why I have no assurance of God really was like based on the scriptures passed down to today, I can only know what God is like based His life in me.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I’m sad for you that scripture is entertainment for you. Notice how I haven’t even focused on your homosexuality, but your false belief. Without accepting God’s word as truth, how can you say you believe in Him? When you deny your sins, you deny your reliance on the cross for salvation. I know for a fact I need the blood of Jesus to cover me and have no problem admitting I’m wrong and He’s right. “I believe you God, I just don’t trust what you say when it convicts me. I’m not sinning according to my feelings. So I don’t need you.”
I get fired up about the Lord now, and I’m not mowed over by opinions and interpretation from people who don’t even believe Him. I was like you and I got corrected sternly. Think about this. Do you think when I get to heaven God is going to be angry with me for taking His word too seriously and trusted Him too much, or is it the people who ignored Him who are going to have the problems? If you consider the truth a rock, I threw one at you. The solid rock I stand on. I’ll go ahead and assume you believe that part of the Bible. How about when Jesus told her to go and sin no more. Do you have an alternative interpretation for that? I’m removing your excuses. Ive had them. They didn’t serve me or God. I know you don’t want to validate the whole word of God because it would make you wrong. It’s your willingness to be wrong that will save you. If you ask God to help you with your unbelief, He will do it.
You might not like me, but my hope is that you doubt your salvation. Not so that you are damned to Hell, but so that you search for God in His word, and put your trust in Him. You and Rose both. He can turn your unbelief into radical faith when you come to Him like a child, humble and honest.

You misconstrue my meaning, I meant that YOU are very entertaining to engage with. It is implied from your previous posts that you mean to say my false belief about homosexuality is wrong, so in a sense you are focusing on my homosexuality.

I have to ask, but were you part of the LC, and how were you corrected. If you dont feel comfortable sharing your personal story, you dont have to give me all the details. I just want to know how you experienced God’s stern correction.

You dont have to worry about me, I worry more about you, since you need more empathy for the lgbtq population. And you tend to jump to conclusions very quickly regarding my beliefs or lack of belief based on my “sin”. Only God is Judge of that. I dont doubt my salvation. and I dont need someone to be worried for me. I’ve been blessed by God for last seven years, for allowing me to seek Him spiritually with my wife and for Him to put the both of us together.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Seems you’re a touch slow.@ awareness

I guess I am slow. I can't determine who you are talking to in your previous post :#560

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

You misconstrue my meaning, I meant that YOU are very entertaining to engage with. It is implied from your previous posts that you mean to say my false belief about homosexuality is wrong, so in a sense you are focusing on my homosexuality.

I have to ask, but were you part of the LC, and how were you corrected. If you dont feel comfortable sharing your personal story, you dont have to give me all the details. I just want to know how you experienced God’s stern correction.

You dont have to worry about me, I worry more about you, since you need more empathy for the lgbtq population. And you tend to jump to conclusions very quickly regarding my beliefs or lack of belief based on my “sin”. Only God is Judge of that. I dont doubt my salvation. and I dont need someone to be worried for me. I’ve been blessed by God for last seven years, for allowing me to seek Him spiritually with my wife and for Him to put the both of us together.

As long as you don’t claim Christianity while disowning the basis of it I’m not worried about you. Surprisingly, I was watching someone live on Facebook who was telling gay people to repent. It seemed unloving and It pissed me off. I defended gay people and said they weren’t sinning. I had heard homosexuality was a sin, but never read it for myself. Some scripture was called to my attention. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 was part of it. I read it, and I saw what it said about drunkards as well. I was an alcoholic and knew it. Nobody I knew cared or condemned me for it. We would just drink and affirm each other. After I saw that word and what it said about me, and pretty much everyone I knew, I felt something inside me harden against God’s word. Even though I knew it was true. Every part of that set of verses was true. I didn’t want to reflect on how I might be offending God by doing something I didn’t think was a big deal.
Through a series of events I was shown that I didn’t have control over my alcoholism at all. God was making me very uncomfortable and insecure. Those words kept coming back to me. One day I was listening to a sermon that told me that sin separates us from God, specifically sin that we don’t want to think of as sin. In that moment I apologized to God that I never listened to Him and was always allowing my feelings of right and wrong to guide me and didn’t consider Him. I committed to read His word, and through it, grew a faith I have faith in. In the name of Jesus, I’ve been delivered out of the darkness. Alcohol was just one thing, but it was the major one I was always compromising. Believing you need saving and what you need it for (acknowledgement, and not in a generic way) was the beginning. Through my insecurity I was able to come to Him. It didn’t happen right away though after seeing the Facebook thing. It took another 2 years. I did grow up in LC but I’m done with it. LC never really enforced Bible reading as important (at least where I was) so I never knew why I said I believed in God. I was never saved outside of the word of God. I believed I didn’t need rescuing bc I was a “good person.” Not one of us is righteous. Not one. Being willing to be wrong made me right with God.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then who gets to choose which parts of the Bible are inspired, and which are not? Who gets to decide which parts of the Bible we discard as objectionable? And if we no longer accept the Bible as God's message to us, then do we really have any assurance that we can know what God is really like?

If we decide to go down this slippery slope, then who decides who gets to survive the sinking Titanic? Are not then all of us like the atheists, making up our own standards of behavior. If there is no after life, then it's all just a matter of not getting caught, right?

I heard some states just legalized psychedelic mushrooms. What fun that will be when a generation of hallucinators start passing new laws. Some of them already believe that looting and burning others' property are justified "reparations" for past evils.

I’m with you brother. When we justify ourselves in our sins, we remove our need for Christ. The Bible is the only way we would ever know what holiness even means. Our hearts deceive us. The Bible says we are the bride and Christ is the bridegroom, and that the bride is the weaker vessel and wives are to submit to their husband. That requires humility. That’s why God opposes the proud. Who could be more proud than a person who thinks their opinions are above the word of God? The word of God is a mirror bc it is through it that we see our sins.
I have zero pride, nothing to be proud of apart from God. I’m embarrassed that I ever spoke falsely about Him and misrepresented Him with my hypocrisy. I was convinced in my own mind that if i didn’t believe His word about my sin, then it wouldn’t apply to me. But I wanted to think I’d go to heaven at the same time, and that God would be gracious to me. But then I remembered ‘if I don’t believe His word, it doesn’t apply to me’ and realized salvation would not apply to me if I didn’t let the rest apply to me. See the predicament there. And I know I’m not the only one!
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness
1 Cor. 5:12-13 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Did God inspire them to choose the ones that became the canon?

In the 4th c. Eusebius of Caesarea gathered the new testament books together. But because of Montanus -- Montanism -- and The New Prophecy, rejected using inspiration by the Holy Spirit to select the books of the canon.

So God did not inspire the selection of the books of the canon.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Straight from the word of God is where I will always go back to. I’m not claiming to speak for God. He spoke already in His word and I’m choosing it over your Gnosticism and falsehood. I usually ignore people too, until they weasel into church forums with lies and expect people with actual faith to affirm them. The word of God doesn’t lie. If you think it does,but you expect to pull the grace card when you stand before Him, you’re a false believer. Period. I’d rather offend you with the truth 100 times than offend God once with affirming your lie. The devil believes the Bible more than you do. You’re lucky someone cared enough to hold a mirror for you to see your true spiritual condition, since you’re not willing to see the Bible as that mirror. Y’all worship something, but it’s not God. You’ll be double minded in everything you do living in false belief. Your best bet is to throw everything away that you think God is and read His word to see who He actually is....if you are over here claiming faith, claiming you’re saved. I’ll make you mad now, and I’ll make you mad any time you ask me to bow to Satan and I say no. But one day, if you’re in the Book of Life, you’ll actually understand. I hope sooner than later you stop criticizing the word of God and start observing yourself. Look up the satanic commandments and see what they say, and see if you align with them. There will be a really check waiting for you on the church of Satan website.

Polytheism actually came before monotheism. Your “God,” “Jehovah” “Yahweh” originated as “El Shaddai” in Book of Torah. He was noted as God of Israel and Mesopotamian equivalent: Anu. Christians just literally plagiarized everyone.

Have you seen Book of Life? Where’s your evidence?

Just skimming through your words just shows how you speak of so much judgement and hate to other people. That isn’t the Christian way.

Originally Posted by Ohio

Then who gets to choose which parts of the Bible are inspired, and which are not? Who gets to decide which parts of the Bible we discard as objectionable? And if we no longer accept the Bible as God's message to us, then do we really have any assurance that we can know what God is really like?

If we decide to go down this slippery slope, then who decides who gets to survive the sinking Titanic? Are not then all of us like the atheists, making up our own standards of behavior. If there is no after life, then it's all just a matter of not getting caught, right?

I heard some states just legalized psychedelic mushrooms. What fun that will be when a generation of hallucinators start passing new laws. Some of them already believe that looting and burning others' property are justified "reparations" for past evils.

Hey, don’t worry about legalizing psychedelic mushrooms. Your generation won’t be here for long. And younger generations will have to take over your conservatism.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

As long as you don’t claim Christianity while disowning the basis of it I’m not worried about you. Surprisingly, I was watching someone live on Facebook who was telling gay people to repent. It seemed unloving and It pissed me off. I defended gay people and said they weren’t sinning. I had heard homosexuality was a sin, but never read it for myself. Some scripture was called to my attention. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 was part of it. I read it, and I saw what it said about drunkards as well. I was an alcoholic and knew it. Nobody I knew cared or condemned me for it. We would just drink and affirm each other. After I saw that word and what it said about me, and pretty much everyone I knew, I felt something inside me harden against God’s word. Even though I knew it was true. Every part of that set of verses was true. I didn’t want to reflect on how I might be offending God by doing something I didn’t think was a big deal.
Through a series of events I was shown that I didn’t have control over my alcoholism at all. God was making me very uncomfortable and insecure. Those words kept coming back to me. One day I was listening to a sermon that told me that sin separates us from God, specifically sin that we don’t want to think of as sin. In that moment I apologized to God that I never listened to Him and was always allowing my feelings of right and wrong to guide me and didn’t consider Him. I committed to read His word, and through it, grew a faith I have faith in. In the name of Jesus, I’ve been delivered out of the darkness. Alcohol was just one thing, but it was the major one I was always compromising. Believing you need saving and what you need it for (acknowledgement, and not in a generic way) was the beginning. Through my insecurity I was able to come to Him. It didn’t happen right away though after seeing the Facebook thing. It took another 2 years. I did grow up in LC but I’m done with it. LC never really enforced Bible reading as important (at least where I was) so I never knew why I said I believed in God. I was never saved outside of the word of God. I believed I didn’t need rescuing bc I was a “good person.” Not one of us is righteous. Not one. Being willing to be wrong made me right with God.

The difference between alcoholism and loving someone regardless of their biological sex is that you were harming yourself (emotionally and physically) and others around you. The latter does not harm others. In fact, they are just loving one another. Sorry to hear about your experience and you seem to be in a better place now.

I was raised in a Roman Catholic family and I don’t practice or believe much of it nowadays, but I honestly learned a lot about loving enemies, and praying for people who hurt others.

At the end of your life, you’ll see that every single one of us aren’t permanent with these human bodies. So why so treat LGBTQ people differently?

Also fact: We are one and the same: all souls. “Homos” comes from the Greek word, meaning “the same.”

Besides, LGBTQ people maintain population control. You don’t need too much growth of a population.

https://www.churchofsatan.com/faq-ch...ant-satanists/

Hey guys, I just checked the FAQ and I’m surprised.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Th fact is they were cherry picked by the Council of Rome and Council of Trent. The book of Hebrews almost didnt make it into the Bible, and Reveleation went in and out like a yoyo based on how the ancients decided which books were inspired or not. You’ll have to ask them in the afterlife how they came to their conclusions. Did God inspire them to choose the ones that became the canon?

Here’s a full history on it - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibl...ristian_canons

So in answer to your question, it was already decided before we were born, by the ancients. And the books that didnt make it into the bible, they depict God differently. Thats why I have no assurance of God really was like based on the scriptures passed down to today, I can only know what God is like based His life in me.

So, if you reject the books of the New Testament, then study what God has given to us in the Old Testament. I see no justification for gay sex, rather I seem to remember a story in Genesis 19 about God judging Sodom and Gommorrah for that. Then the book of Leviticus also had a few more things to say.

If you are really ready to go so far as to reject the books of the New Testament, then you might want to reconsider whether Jesus died for your sins. Or not.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Ohio

So, if you reject the books of the New Testament, then study what God has given to us in the Old Testament. I see no justification for gay sex, rather I seem to remember a story in Genesis 19 about God judging Sodom and Gommorrah for that. Then the book of Leviticus also had a few more things to say.

If you are really ready to go so far as to reject the books of the New Testament, then you might want to reconsider whether Jesus died for your sins. Or not.

The Torah’s authorship has been debated: “By contrast, the modern scholarly consensus rejects Mosaic authorship, and affirms that the Torah has multiple authors and that its composition took place over centuries.“
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah

The Pentateuch received its final form during the Persian period (538–332 BC). Nevertheless, Leviticus had a long period of growth before reaching that form. Look at the function of Leviticus Chapter 18 and Judaists have changed their views over homosexuality over the years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharei_Mot

Sodom and Gomorrah was judged for a myriad of sins- inhospitality, gang rape, lust and orgies, and pride. Plus I dont trust the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot asked the men to rape his two daughters thinking it would solve their debauchery. If I were given the option to rape anyone, I wouldnt do it. Ot was not homosexuality, it was the men of sodom taking power away from the guests and humiliating them for their own pleasure. How is that any relevant to today’s gay couples?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Love

The difference between alcoholism and loving someone regardless of their biological sex is that you were harming yourself (emotionally and physically) and others around you. The latter does not harm others. In fact, they are just loving one another. .

Unregistered, Ohio, and Sons of Glory, I want to see if you guys can give up your wives and throw them out in the streets like they are any other type of addiction. Because that is essentially what you guys are asking me to do. are you guys also loving and sexually “addicted” to your wives or there’s no spark so you guys are jealous of my romantic relationship with my wife?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Love

Polytheism actually came before monotheism. Your “God,” “Jehovah” “Yahweh” originated as “El Shaddai” in Book of Torah. He was noted as God of Israel and Mesopotamian equivalent: Anu. Christians just literally plagiarized everyone.

Have you seen Book of Life? Where’s your evidence?

Just skimming through your words just shows how you speak of so much judgement and hate to other people. That isn’t the Christian way.

Jehovah originated from this God- Yahweh or El and looked like this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-thumbnail.jpg

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

As long as you don’t claim Christianity while disowning the basis of it I’m not worried about you. Surprisingly, I was watching someone live on Facebook who was telling gay people to repent. It seemed unloving and It pissed me off. I defended gay people and said they weren’t sinning. I had heard homosexuality was a sin, but never read it for myself. Some scripture was called to my attention. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 was part of it. I read it, and I saw what it said about drunkards as well. I was an alcoholic and knew it. Nobody I knew cared or condemned me for it. We would just drink and affirm each other. After I saw that word and what it said about me, and pretty much everyone I knew, I felt something inside me harden against God’s word. Even though I knew it was true. Every part of that set of verses was true. I didn’t want to reflect on how I might be offending God by doing something I didn’t think was a big deal.
Through a series of events I was shown that I didn’t have control over my alcoholism at all. God was making me very uncomfortable and insecure. Those words kept coming back to me. One day I was listening to a sermon that told me that sin separates us from God, specifically sin that we don’t want to think of as sin. In that moment I apologized to God that I never listened to Him and was always allowing my feelings of right and wrong to guide me and didn’t consider Him. I committed to read His word, and through it, grew a faith I have faith in. In the name of Jesus, I’ve been delivered out of the darkness. Alcohol was just one thing, but it was the major one I was always compromising. Believing you need saving and what you need it for (acknowledgement, and not in a generic way) was the beginning. Through my insecurity I was able to come to Him. It didn’t happen right away though after seeing the Facebook thing. It took another 2 years. I did grow up in LC but I’m done with it. LC never really enforced Bible reading as important (at least where I was) so I never knew why I said I believed in God. I was never saved outside of the word of God. I believed I didn’t need rescuing bc I was a “good person.” Not one of us is righteous. Not one. Being willing to be wrong made me right with God.

I'm really touched by your testimony here. I think I now understand where you're coming from. Thanks for being open and honest.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Jehovah originated from this God- Yahweh or El and looked like this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-thumbnail.jpg

Thanks for the pix of El.

The early Israelite's were Canaanite polytheists. Monotheism wasn't solidified until the exile, when the Torah was put together, so the Israelite's could keep their identity, after losing their holy city and temple.

A good night sleep was really needed after yesterday. I’m not in a heat of passion today, I can just say in love, that the very basic of being saved is believing God, all aspects of Him. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He’s often met with rejection rather than reflection.
I’m not asking any of you to do anything except consider God right and yourselves wrong. And that’s a lot to ask of you guys. I’m not really asking, just telling you that that is how it works. I’m passionate about God, not about being ‘anti gay’. My hope was that in calling you guys wrong you would seek to be right with God, look in His word, and understand that most of the way we live is sinful, and homosexuality is in that realm. Step one is at the very least acknowledging that we don’t decide what’s right and wrong, and that God’s word is true, even the parts that make us uncomfortable. The Bible’s God is the God of Christianity. The Bible is what the Christian faith is based on. To be honest with you guys, I’d say the same stuff to ANYONE claiming to be a Christian that can’t acknowledge their sin. You guys just happen to be gay. I’m telling you, you’re not so different. I’m not going to undermine your feelings, and I can’t make you guys accept the truth about it being a sin. If you don’t believe it, I’ll leave you guys alone about it. I mean it.
Hey Love Guest, you went on that website? Before I got saved legitimately (believed the Bible entirely) I went on it and looked at their commandments. I was like, oh no, it looks like I’m a satanist! It really tripped me out. Then, I looked st the hierarchy and saw that a fifth degree satanist is called a Maga. This was AFTER I had just voted for Trump! I was shook! I take this stuff pretty seriously now as you guys might have noticed lol I didn’t even vote this election bc I’m fully convinced Trump is the highest level satanist there is.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

A good night sleep was really needed after yesterday. I’m not in a heat of passion today, I can just say in love, that the very basic of being saved is believing God, all aspects of Him. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He’s often met with rejection rather than reflection.
I’m not asking any of you to do anything except consider God right and yourselves wrong. And that’s a lot to ask of you guys. I’m not really asking, just telling you that that is how it works. I’m passionate about God, not about being ‘anti gay’. My hope was that in calling you guys wrong you would seek to be right with God, look in His word, and understand that most of the way we live is sinful, and homosexuality is in that realm. Step one is at the very least acknowledging that we don’t decide what’s right and wrong, and that God’s word is true, even the parts that make us uncomfortable. The Bible’s God is the God of Christianity. The Bible is what the Christian faith is based on. To be honest with you guys, I’d say the same stuff to ANYONE claiming to be a Christian that can’t acknowledge their sin. You guys just happen to be gay. I’m telling you, you’re not so different. I’m not going to undermine your feelings, and I can’t make you guys accept the truth about it being a sin. If you don’t believe it, I’ll leave you guys alone about it. I mean it.
Hey Love Guest, you went on that website? Before I got saved legitimately (believed the Bible entirely) I went on it and looked at their commandments. I was like, oh no, it looks like I’m a satanist! It really tripped me out. Then, I looked st the hierarchy and saw that a fifth degree satanist is called a Maga. This was AFTER I had just voted for Trump! I was shook! I take this stuff pretty seriously now as you guys might have noticed lol I didn’t even vote this election bc I’m fully convinced Trump is the highest level satanist there is.

Oh boy. A little rough and tumble, with Satan in the mix.

Please allow me to make one little change :

When you said : "I’m not asking any of you to do anything except consider God right and yourselves wrong." Please change that to : 'I’m not asking any of you to do anything except consider God right and we're all wrong.'

Just pointing that, you are one of us, with different human problems. We're all His-Her-Their children. Of course God has the right to treat anyone, even the right ones, like He-She-They treated Job. That's strictly, and privately, dependent upon what kind of gambling spirit God and Satan are in.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

A good night sleep was really needed after yesterday. I’m not in a heat of passion today, I can just say in love, that the very basic of being saved is believing God, all aspects of Him. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He’s often met with rejection rather than reflection.
I’m not asking any of you to do anything except consider God right and yourselves wrong. And that’s a lot to ask of you guys. I’m not really asking, just telling you that that is how it works. I’m passionate about God, not about being ‘anti gay’. My hope was that in calling you guys wrong you would seek to be right with God, look in His word, and understand that most of the way we live is sinful, and homosexuality is in that realm. Step one is at the very least acknowledging that we don’t decide what’s right and wrong, and that God’s word is true, even the parts that make us uncomfortable. The Bible’s God is the God of Christianity. The Bible is what the Christian faith is based on. To be honest with you guys, I’d say the same stuff to ANYONE claiming to be a Christian that can’t acknowledge their sin. You guys just happen to be gay. I’m telling you, you’re not so different. I’m not going to undermine your feelings, and I can’t make you guys accept the truth about it being a sin. If you don’t believe it, I’ll leave you guys alone about it. I mean it.
Hey Love Guest, you went on that website? Before I got saved legitimately (believed the Bible entirely) I went on it and looked at their commandments. I was like, oh no, it looks like I’m a satanist! It really tripped me out. Then, I looked st the hierarchy and saw that a fifth degree satanist is called a Maga. This was AFTER I had just voted for Trump! I was shook! I take this stuff pretty seriously now as you guys might have noticed lol I didn’t even vote this election bc I’m fully convinced Trump is the highest level satanist there is.

Homosexuality isn’t a sin if you’re loving someone regardless of their gender.

Lemme quote Church of Satan to Christians that degrade other people:

“We trust you are praying to your God for forgiveness, as you certainly aren’t living up to the tenets of Christianity. Do you remember the dictum “Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you”? Well, is it that you want strangers to send you hateful email out of the blue, as you have done to us?

You are clearly committing a sin by your own standards by this action, and if you don’t get it forgiven, it may be one of the many which bar your entry into the Heaven in which you believe.

Your bigotry and intolerance are exactly the same as that shown by the terrorists who kill those who do not share their beliefs. The free world of rational secular individuals is tired of people like you. You will reap as you have sown.“

You’ve been doing nonstop circular reasoning and it’s actually unconvincing (boring actually) because of your taking of the Bible literally.

Too tired to debate with this brainwashed cult.

So you’re calling God a liar? Either you’re wrong or the Bible is wrong. Which is it for you? I just want you to say it plainly, so I can move on. I already know what it is for myself: Let God be true and every human being a liar.
I’ll never email the church of Satan. They know what they believe.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So you’re calling God a liar? Either you’re wrong or the Bible is wrong. Which is it for you? I just want you to say it plainly, so I can move on. I already know what it is for myself: Let God be true and every human being a liar.
I’ll never email the church of Satan. They know what they believe.

What made you assume that I’m calling God a liar? I don’t think He will ever condemn people because he speaks of love, not hate. What you’re doing now is the total opposite, Ohio 2.0.

The Bible doesn’t condemn sinners, He condemns people who don’t confess their sins. You call God a liar by saying the Bible is false about your particular sin. Your views about what’s sin and what isn’t aren’t Biblical. I want you to be able to receive forgiveness that comes from believing and confessing your sins. I know yours is harder to come to terms with I totally get that it is easier for someone to point this out to you than it is to wrestle with your emotions. I do not in any way hate you. I just can’t agrew with you and agree with the word of God. Even though I don’t agree with you, I understand more than you know.

[SerenityLives]

Unregistered, you are clearly a bible literalist and that’s okay. Just dont go around asking people to choose between two different extremes because the situation is not so black and white for everyone.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I dont hate you. I just can’t agrew with you and agree with the word of God. Even though I don’t agree with you, I understand more than you know.

You dont know the context in which the Bible books were written. The term for homosexuality for the English bible, particularly the new testament, wasnt coined until at a later time. The bible writers did not have the research we have today about human sexuality and God didnt bother to tell them. You can agree with the Word of God all you want but that doesnt make you in a better position to judge all of us.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The Bible doesn’t condemn sinners, He condemns people who don’t confess their sins. You call God a liar by saying the Bible is false about your particular sin. Your views about what’s sin and what isn’t aren’t Biblical. I want you to be able to receive forgiveness that comes from believing and confessing your sins. I know yours is harder to come to terms with I totally get that it is easier for someone to point this out to you than it is to wrestle with your emotions. I do not in any way hate you. I just can’t agrew with you and agree with the word of God. Even though I don’t agree with you, I understand more than you know.

And what makes your views “biblical”? In order to study the Bible, we have to understand the reasons, context, motives for the Bible writers for why certain things were written down. And I just dont see enough context to positively say for sure that homosexuality is a sin, right now, as opposed to thousands of years ago, when there were different cultural implicaions for stoning two homosexuals to death. almost all the homosexuality verses in New Testament were written by Paul and we are following someones old email to churches thousands of years ago. but no, its kind of funny that we have to follow these emails at face value even if they were supposed to be applied to a different audience of a different time.

And Ohio, hate to break it to you, but a lot of Bible scholars have already carbon dated the prophecy books (Daniel, ezekial etc) were written after the events they claimed to prophesying about happened. Thats not prophecy but you were tricked into thinking it was prophecy because these authors had an agenda to legitimize what was going on in Israelite history.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

The bible writers did not have the research we have today about human sexuality and God didnt bother to tell them.

I think our brother, or sister, Unregistered, has read his or her Bible but he/her failed to catch that sometimes God doesn't consult His omniscience.

So if God did inspire the authors of the books of the Bible, it could be that God is ignoring His omniscience when it comes to condemning homosexuality, else He would have informed them of what our research today shows is behind sexual orientation.

Or maybe God back then didn't know about modern research. I don't know. And since Unregistered doesn't know God's omniscience, neither does he.

I salute his concern. But if he or her is going to go around fighting what he/her thinks the Bible calls sin then, he or she has got an untenable job ... and picking on just the gays isn't fair or proper. After all, there are sins that are much much bigger, and of much more of a societal concern ... like sex outside of marriage, that many Christian churches don't like but accept anyway.

The Bible is the epitome of Biblical. My God isn’t dumb. He doesn’t leave out anything. Including this.
2 Timothy 4:2-4 Preach the word; he prepared in and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage —with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business of it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God would judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
If you weren’t here on a Christian discussion website asking for affirmation of your sin, I’d have nothing to say to you about any of it. You’re not Christian and don’t believe in the Bible, so why are you worried about what Christians think? I thought you might be Christians who needed some direction, but clearly none of you believe the Bible, because there’s no affirmation for you in it, except the blood of Jesus when you confess your sin to Him.
Take it up with God and stop asking His people to affirm you. It’s a sin for us to do so.

Also I’ve been kicked out of a church before for being pregnant out of wedlock. I was beyond offended, but I wasn’t surprised. I love those people today. I didn’t in the moment. If I’d wver seen someone asking me to affirm fornicstion on a local church website I’d give them the same treatment, especially bc there’s less of a reason for that to be happening in the straight community.
My own brother won’t marry his girlfriend of 10 years so they can keep getting food stamps. And they both make good money. He won’t admit what he’s doing is a sin bc he’s in love. Do you guys think I don’t say something to him about it? I definitely have lol

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Also I’ve been kicked out of a church before for being pregnant out of wedlock. I was beyond offended, but I wasn’t surprised

I’m sorry that happened to you, this whole time I assumed you were a brother.. unless there’s two “unregistered’s” or you’re an intersex or gender neautral. But hey, all are welcome here.

What I learned about LGBTQ:

1. LGBTQ people maintain population control which helps the environment. The demand for basic needs won’t give too much stress with the planet.

2. Also it definitely brings out diversity in others. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that there is a variety of sexual and romantic attraction. We can’t all just be heterosexual.

3. They adopt children that give them happy homes, so as heterosexual couples that are unable to conceive a child on their own.

Unregistered baffles me how ignorant she is. Wake up. This isn’t the 18th century.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Also I’ve been kicked out of a church before for being pregnant out of wedlock.

Oh no! Not another virgin birth!

Originally Posted by Unreg

And they both make good money. He won’t admit what he’s doing is a sin bc he’s in love. Do you guys think I don’t say something to him about it? I definitely have lol

You're a love kill.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The Bible is the epitome of Biblical. My God isn’t dumb. He doesn’t leave out anything.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business of it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God would judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
If you weren’t here on a Christian discussion website asking for affirmation of your sin, I’d have nothing to say to you about any of it. You’re not Christian and don’t believe in the Bible, so why are you worried about what Christians think? I thought you might be Christians who needed some direction, but clearly none of you believe the Bible, because there’s no affirmation for you in it, except the blood of Jesus when you confess your sin to Him.
Take it up with God and stop asking His people to affirm you. It’s a sin for us to do so.

Oh there’s plenty the Bible doesnt say. But God is prob not dumb, just us stupid humans making mistakes in writing his Word down. We were having a discussion here about lessons learned from “lgbtq” until you came along and tried to provide some direction to your “wayward Christian brothers and sisters”. I’m not the one worried about what Christians like you think, I think you are the one more worried about how I think. And to be clear, I dont need any affirmation for who I am. Your ruling and statement that I am not a Christian says more about you than me. If you think God already knows who is Christian or not, why do you need to let me know? I dont need to ask you to affirm me, I just need yiu to respect all the views on this forum whether they seem Christian to you or not. this is Alternative Views, welcomed to all kinds of Christians and those who left the LC, who may have become just nominal Christians, atheists, agnostics, but we are all in the journey of being brothers and sisters in Christ. Thats why Untohim created Alternative Views. Correct me if I am wrong, Untohim

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I’m sorry that happened to you, this whole time I assumed you were a brother.. unless there’s two “unregistered’s” or you’re an intersex or gender neautral. But hey, all are welcome here.

Yes, she's more than welcome. She should sign up.

Good luck finding yourselves. I hope it’ll be a journey into God’s word, but either way, I wish you all no harm.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Good luck finding yourselves. I hope it’ll be a journey into God’s word, but either way, I wish you all no harm.

Right back atcha sister. Please consider joining the forum. I promise to go easy on ya.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The Bible is the epitome of Biblical. My God isn’t dumb. He doesn’t leave out anything. Including this.
2 Timothy 4:2-4 Preach the word; he prepared in and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage —with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 What business of it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God would judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
If you weren’t here on a Christian discussion website asking for affirmation of your sin, I’d have nothing to say to you about any of it. You’re not Christian and don’t believe in the Bible, so why are you worried about what Christians think? I thought you might be Christians who needed some direction, but clearly none of you believe the Bible, because there’s no affirmation for you in it, except the blood of Jesus when you confess your sin to Him.
Take it up with God and stop asking His people to affirm you. It’s a sin for us to do so.

I would have sent this to you privately, but you cannot receive private messages as an unregistered poster.

"You need not fight this battle. Take up your positions, stand firm, and see the salvation of the LORD."
(2 Chron 20:17)

What is manifesting itself fully in the world now is not our battle, it is His. He's got this! We can testify of what we see and pray, but the battle is His. Of course it's not people we hate, but we wrestle against principalities and powers manipulating them - again, the battle is His! Testify and pray and be at peace, for the Shepherd King has won and will win, and therefore mankind will win (just read the end of the book).

The day is coming soon (and is here now), when this will be so apparently true: "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me." But the witness to them is true, and as He stated, "My word will not return unto Me void." So we speak the truth in love, and be at peace, sister, for this battle is the Lord's!

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Th fact is they were cherry picked by the Council of Rome and Council of Trent. The book of Hebrews almost didnt make it into the Bible, and Reveleation went in and out like a yoyo based on how the ancients decided which books were inspired or not. You’ll have to ask them in the afterlife how they came to their conclusions. Did God inspire them to choose the ones that became the canon?

Here’s a full history on it - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibl...ristian_canons

So in answer to your question, it was already decided before we were born, by the ancients. And the books that didnt make it into the bible, they depict God differently. Thats why I have no assurance of God really was like based on the scriptures passed down to today, I can only know what God is like based His life in me.

Out of curiosity, are there any books of the Bible we can quote verses from that you will accept as the Word of God? If so, which books?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Out of curiosity, are there any books of the Bible we can quote verses from that you will accept as the Word of God? If so, which books?

Song of Songs, because I’m big on romance even if it’s between a king and a countrygirl. jubilees, gospel according to mary, and the ones written in aramaic:
book of enoch
book of maccabees

but oops not in the Canon..

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Song of Songs, because I’m big on romance even if it’s between a king and a countrygirl. jubilees, gospel according to mary, and the ones written in aramaic:
book of enoch
book of maccabees

but oops not in the Canon..

Thanks. Can you help me understand why you take these books as the Word of God and do not take the books that are more commonly understood to be the Word of God? In other words, what led you to trust these books but not trust any except one (Song of Songs) that are in the standard OT and NT as God's Word?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Song of Songs, because I’m big on romance even if it’s between a king and a countrygirl. jubilees, gospel according to mary, and the ones written in aramaic:
book of enoch
book of maccabees

but oops not in the Canon..

Let me recommend the Hallmark channels.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Thanks. Can you help me understand why you take these books as the Word of God and do not take the books that are more commonly understood to be the Word of God? In other words, what led you to trust these books but not trust any except one (Song of Songs) that are in the standard OT and NT as God's Word?

First off, I find Song of Songs full of love and without judgement and violence. And that is how I view God. He is more compassionate and loving than anything, which trumps all the other books in the bible, which can be filled with violent passages and descriptions, and often depict God as unmerciful or cruel. I took the other books to be examples of books that were written in original Aramaic but unfortunately werent put in the Bible but they explain a much bigger picture and fill in the blanks of what the canonical bible misses at certain points (like history of Israelites in Maccabees and more personality descriptions of angels and heavenly realm in the other books). Don’t get me wrong here, I’m just pointing out how some of the books left out of the Bible seem better in providing what God was like to the Israelites and provides other answers to how the Israelites evolved in their relationship to God, so they are to me AS “divinely inspired” as the books passed down to us in the King James Bible. I also chose Gospel of Mary because it provides a woman’s point of view and one of Jesus’s closest followers and I think that should merit with amount of divine inspiration as the other gospels.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

First off, I find Song of Songs full of love and without judgement and violence. And that is how I view God. He is more compassionate and loving than anything, which trumps all the other books in the bible, which can be filled with violent passages and descriptions, and often depict God as unmerciful or cruel. I took the other books to be examples of books that were written in original Aramaic but unfortunately werent put in the Bible but they explain a much bigger picture and fill in the blanks of what the canonical bible misses at certain points (like history of Israelites in Maccabees and more personality descriptions of angels and heavenly realm in the other books). Don’t get me wrong here, I’m just pointing out how some of the books left out of the Bible seem better in providing what God was like to the Israelites and provides other answers to how the Israelites evolved in their relationship to God, so they are to me AS “divinely inspired” as the books passed down to us in the King James Bible. I also chose Gospel of Mary because it provides a woman’s point of view and one of Jesus’s closest followers and I think that should merit with amount of divine inspiration as the other gospels.

Okay, I'm a bit confused. From previous posts it seems like you don't trust certain books of the Bible because they were written by men, or translated by men. In other posts you say you don't think the Bible is completely divinely-inspired, and call it dangerous like an iceberg. In other posts you speak of books being cherry picked for inclusion and not having trust that they represent God.

So I ask what books you DO consider the word of God and you give me a list of books that are not typically considered to be the word of God. And then in this last post you seem to backtrack and say the non-canonical books you take to be the word of God are "AS" divinely inspired as the Bible, which sounds like you actually DO think the Bible is God's word.

Color me confused. Are there any books besides Song of Songs that I can quote a verse from and you would take it as God's Word? You seem to take issue with much of Paul's writing, so if I use verses from his books, I think you would automatically discount them. Do you take the gospels as God's Word?

Where I'm headed with all this is just trying to find books that are common ground that both "sides" can use in the discussion without having to get into their authenticity. It goes nowhere if I quote a verse and the responses are "Paul isn't Jesus" or "that was mistranslated by men" or "it's not really what it says it is." I'm looking for common ground books that both "sides" trust as the Word of God. Are there any?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Okay, I'm a bit confused. From previous posts it seems like you don't trust certain books of the Bible because they were written by men, or translated by men. In other posts you say you don't think the Bible is completely divinely-inspired, and call it dangerous like an iceberg. In other posts you speak of books being cherry picked for inclusion and not having trust that they represent God.

So I ask what books you DO consider the word of God and you give me a list of books that are not typically considered to be the word of God. And then in this last post you seem to backtrack and say the non-canonical books you take to be the word of God are "AS" divinely inspired as the Bible, which sounds like you actually DO think the Bible is God's word.

Color me confused. Are there any books besides Song of Songs that I can quote a verse from and you would take it as God's Word? You seem to take issue with much of Paul's writing, so if I use verses from his books, I think you would automatically discount them. Do you take the gospels as God's Word?

Where I'm headed with all this is just trying to find books that are common ground that both "sides" can use in the discussion without having to get into their authenticity. It goes nowhere if I quote a verse and the responses are "Paul isn't Jesus" or "that was mistranslated by men" or "it's not really what it says it is." I'm looking for common ground books that both "sides" trust as the Word of God. Are there any?

Hello Trapped, to clarify your confusion, I believe the books of the bible are only as “divinely inspired” as the books that did not make it into the Bible. Can you provide me an example of what divine inspiration is exactly? Because the way I see it, it is God’s speaking through men, but each person have their own experiences, historical context, and culture that can also color their unique experiences of God. Thus, your first paragraph of all the things I believe in is true. I do not believe in 100 percent divinely inspired text, UNLESS it comes from Jesus Himself or God Himself; as it is mostly written by men, even the books reportedly written by women (Esther and Ruth), they were most likely written by men and have been skewed towards a more patriarchical view. Are you able to quote Song of Songs though for lgbtq? What makes it difficult to do so?

btw, I am still willing to entertain any verses of any books in the Bible, whether I personally believe they’re authentic or not, for the purposes of this discussion.

[SerenityLives]

Hello Sons of Glory, I guess we can continue the discussion regarding translations of the homosexuality verses in the bible here, as started by XCK. I do miss you, but tone it down a little on your Jesus juice for the new sisters here who are atheists alright? Okay

Dear Ohio and your fellow brothers,

If being gay is a choice, show us the proof. Choose it. Choose to be gay yourself. Show America how that's done. show us how a man can choose to be gay. Suck a guy’s thing. Name the time and the place and a camera crew can come so that you can win the argument.
Sincerely,
Love

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Love

Dear Ohio and your fellow brothers,

If being gay is a choice, show us the proof. Choose it. Choose to be gay yourself. Show America how that's done. show us how a man can choose to be gay. Suck a guy’s thing. Name the time and the place and a camera crew can come so that you can win the argument.
Sincerely,
Love

Can you point me to a post on the threads where Ohio, StG, or I have claimed outright that being gay is a choice? I don't actually recall that being stated. I don't believe it, so I know I wouldn't have said it. Maybe Ohio or StG did, but there have been so many posts on this topic I can't recall.

If it turns out we never said it, then you should probably retract your post implying that we did.

The way you have written this post makes it sound like "being gay" equals "sucking on things". When the sucking stops (sorry for everyone reading) are they still gay? Because my impression was you can be gay even if you are not having gay sex. I thought that's what you delineated in the other thread......that attractions (being gay, not a choice) and actions (having gay sex, is a choice) are different things.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Can you point me to a post on the threads where Ohio, StG, or I have claimed outright that being gay is a choice? I don't actually recall that being stated. I don't believe it, so I know I wouldn't have said it. Maybe Ohio or StG did, but there have been so many posts on this topic I can't recall.

If it turns out we never said it, then you should probably retract your post implying that we did.

The way you have written this post makes it sound like "being gay" equals "sucking on things". When the sucking stops (sorry for everyone reading) are they still gay? Because my impression was you can be gay even if you are not having gay sex. I thought that's what you delineated in the other thread......that attractions (being gay, not a choice) and actions (having gay sex, is a choice) are different things.

Is it okay if I answer this one? I frankly remember Ohio insinuating that I can easily choose to cheat against my wife due to me being bisexual (attracted to both sexes),
And I know that Love differentiated between the two, but she also claimed they are inevitably connected. Desire leads to behavior. When two people love each other, they inevitably want to make each other feel good, physically and emotionally. To make the definition of "gay" as being only "celibate gay" is denying what is natural. But again, we can disagree on what is natural and unnatural based on the Bible.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Is it okay if I answer this one? I frankly remember Ohio insinuating that I can easily choose to cheat against my wife due to me being bisexual (attracted to both sexes),
And I know that Love differentiated between the two, but she also claimed they are inevitably connected. Desire leads to behavior. When two people love each other, they inevitably want to make each other feel good, physically and emotionally. To make the definition of "gay" as being only "celibate gay" is denying what is natural. But again, we can disagree on what is natural and unnatural based on the Bible.

Of course, anyone can chime in. I remember Ohio insinuating that also, but that still seems to be claiming an certain act (cheating) is a choice, versus claiming that having attractions to both sexes is a choice.

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to imply that "gay" only means "celibate gay". What I meant in responding to Love's post was that she seemed to imply that "gay" only meant "gay sex", because she equated choosing to be gay with the sexual act she described. So it sounded like to her, "gay" only meant "sexual act gay". I didn't mean to imply that "gay" only means "celibate gay", sorry. What I meant to be saying was essentially that "gay" is broader than just the sex part. I think even on these threads the pro-LGBT parties have said something like "why does it always have to be about sex?" implying there is more to "being gay" than just the sex only. Then when Love equated "show us gay" with "gay sex" it seemed to contradict the previous thought that gay is not only about the sex act.

That was probably confusing. It's late. I'm scared to offend anyone so another blowup doesn't occur. We do disagree what's natural so I'll leave it at that.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Of course, anyone can chime in. I remember Ohio insinuating that also, but that still seems to be claiming an certain act (cheating) is a choice, versus claiming that having attractions to both sexes is a choice.

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to imply that "gay" only means "celibate gay". What I meant in responding to Love's post was that she seemed to imply that "gay" only meant "gay sex", because she equated choosing to be gay with the sexual act she described. So it sounded like to her, "gay" only meant "sexual act gay". I didn't mean to imply that "gay" only means "celibate gay", sorry. What I meant to be saying was essentially that "gay" is broader than just the sex part. I think even on these threads the pro-LGBT parties have said something like "why does it always have to be about sex?" implying there is more to "being gay" than just the sex only. Then when Love equated "show us gay" with "gay sex" it seemed to contradict the previous thought that gay is not only about the sex act.

That was probably confusing. It's late. I'm scared to offend anyone so another blowup doesn't occur. We do disagree what's natural so I'll leave it at that.

Yes but he jumped to the conclusion that I WOULD cheat based on my sexual identity. So in a way, he connected my bisexual tendencies automatically to my behaviors. Now isn't that ironic coming from you guys who like to separate actions and behaviors from sexual identity?

I think sex is a major part of "sexual" identity, I mean it's in the word. That's what Love was trying to get at. I mean after all, whenever a homosexual tells an evangelical Christian that they are "homosexual", honestly, what do you guys picture in your heads first? Two men or two lesbian women hanging out or two men or two women in bed?

Here is gay to me:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAD

Which emoji do you envision? Or all of the above? Or none of the above? (there's no bed/sex emoji). This is a nice IQ test for StG too.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Yes but he jumped to the conclusion that I WOULD cheat based on my sexual identity. So in a way, he connected my bisexual tendencies automatically to my behaviors. Now isn't that ironic coming from you guys who like to separate actions and behaviors from sexual identity?

I think sex is a major part of "sexual" identity, I mean it's in the word. That's what Love was trying to get at. I mean after all, whenever a homosexual tells an evangelical Christian that they are "homosexual", honestly, what do you guys picture in your heads first? Two men or two lesbian women hanging out or two men or two women in bed?

Here is gay to me:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=...AAAAAdAAAAABAD

Which emoji do you envision? Or all of the above? Or none of the above? (there's no bed/sex emoji). This is a nice IQ test for StG too.

Gotcha, I see. Well, in this case, I would ask that I not be included in the "you guys" since I think I've always tried to separate them. While there are "two sides" on this issue on this thread, within each side there are also differences. I do not agree that being bisexual automatically means that you would cheat.

I also agree sex is a major part. That is why I have been confused in the past when some people on the pro-LGBTQ side have said, "why are you so focused on the sex part?" Well.....because that is kind of a big part of it!

If you want my honest answer, when I hear "homosexual" I think of the kissing first (probably because that's what was mostly initially portrayed on television) and then the sex in a bedroom second.

Wait, I said that and now change my mind. On a "removed from real people" discussion like this, I think of kissing and sex. But if I was to talk to a person in real life who said "I am gay", the first thing I would think of are their inner attractions and feelings, not the sex.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Can you point me to a post on the threads where Ohio, StG, or I have claimed outright that being gay is a choice? I don't actually recall that being stated. I don't believe it, so I know I wouldn't have said it. Maybe Ohio or StG did, but there have been so many posts on this topic I can't recall.

As for me, in my mind the exact origin of the gay thing in someone is a mystery, and I don't know that anyone knows for sure. And there may be different reasons for it, as we've discussed, right? And a is far as choice is concerned, I don't think it can't be completely discounted either . . .

So I've been impressed what powerful things hormones are in our bodies. And if I had another life to live, being an endocrinologist would be a most fascinating thing! I deal with issues with my blood sugar, which are controlled by various hormones. I'm continually amazed how powerful an affect these hormones can have on me - both physically and mentally! Years ago, before I learned to control it with diet, the mood swings about drove me crazy, to the point that just the hint of suicidal thoughts started to come up. I rejected these, but realized that this was something powerful and even deadly serious. Therefore, I became diligent to find an answer (which a doctor suggested to me in a roundabout way).

The sex drive in a person's body is another very powerful hormonal reaction, which affects body and mind. Especially when we're young, these hormones are nearly overpowering to us. I remember doing things that now I wonder, "What was I thinking!?" But I do know - I was under the influence of a powerful hormone "drug." With that influence, sometimes I made good choices; other times not. I do have to credit His life in me for shepherding me to where I am today - in a committed, 24 year monogamous relationship with a wonderful woman. (People who know me now, are amazed when they discover my past exceedingly irresponsible behaviors of sex, drugs & rock-n-roll, that also got me into my share of "scrapes" with the law!) But a lot of where I am now depended on setting my will to make certain choices.

Again I'm not saying gayness is only about choice, but our mind and will is our mind and will. Emotions are fickle and can lead us all over the place if we let it, as can various hormonal reactions. Through the flesh we feel, but we can chose whether to allow those feelings to rule the day, or take another route (for me, that often means giving it to Jesus).

So please don't misunderstand - I'm not saying gayness is just a choice or just a feeling. But as said before - we really don't know exactly where gayness comes from, so let's not completely discount choice in this discussion either.

Hope that makes some sense . . .

[awareness]

Hey Sons. Hope you're having a nice Gobble Gobble day.

Thanks for sharing (left below). I think I now get why you have problems understanding gayness. You're in a long running hetero marriage to a "wonderful woman." Your world is so much more different than the world of gays. BTW, I've really enjoyed learning more about it, and the Bible lessons connected to it too.

I feel to point out that gays too can be in long term relationships to a "wonderful woman/mate." And just as in hetero relationships, sex is important to a healthy relationship, but sex is not everything.

Harold
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

As for me, in my mind the exact origin of the gay thing in someone is a mystery, and I don't know that anyone knows for sure. And there may be different reasons for it, as we've discussed, right? And a is far as choice is concerned, I don't think it can't be completely discounted either . . .

So I've been impressed what powerful things hormones are in our bodies. And if I had another life to live, being an endocrinologist would be a most fascinating thing! I deal with issues with my blood sugar, which are controlled by various hormones. I'm continually amazed how powerful an affect these hormones can have on me - both physically and mentally! Years ago, before I learned to control it with diet, the mood swings about drove me crazy, to the point that just the hint of suicidal thoughts started to come up. I rejected these, but realized that this was something powerful and even deadly serious. Therefore, I became diligent to find an answer (which a doctor suggested to me in a roundabout way).

The sex drive in a person's body is another very powerful hormonal reaction, which affects body and mind. Especially when we're young, these hormones are nearly overpowering to us. I remember doing things that now I wonder, "What was I thinking!?" But I do know - I was under the influence of a powerful hormone "drug." With that influence, sometimes I made good choices; other times not. I do have to credit His life in me for shepherding me to where I am today - in a committed, 24 year monogamous relationship with a wonderful woman. (People who know me now, are amazed when they discover my past exceedingly irresponsible behaviors of sex, drugs & rock-n-roll, that also got me into my share of "scrapes" with the law!) But a lot of where I am now depended on setting my will to make certain choices.

Again I'm not saying gayness is only about choice, but our mind and will is our mind and will. Emotions are fickle and can lead us all over the place if we let it, as can various hormonal reactions. Through the flesh we feel, but we can chose whether to allow those feelings to rule the day, or take another route (for me, that often means giving it to Jesus).

So please don't misunderstand - I'm not saying gayness is just a choice or just a feeling. But as said before - we really don't know exactly where gayness comes from, so let's not completely discount choice in this discussion either.

Hope that makes some sense . . .

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

Hey Sons. Hope you're having a nice Gobble Gobble day.

Thanks for sharing (left below). I think I now get why you have problems understanding gayness. You're in a long running hetero marriage to a "wonderful woman." Your world is so much more different than the world of gays. BTW, I've really enjoyed learning more about it, and the Bible lessons connected to it too.

I feel to point out that gays too can be in long term relationships to a "wonderful woman/mate." And just as in hetero relationships, sex is important to a healthy relationship, but sex is not everything.

Harold
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you! We had a most grateful day with a few family and friends. We were most thankful for my brother-in-laws positive cancer surgery outcome (three parts of his body). But we are blessed with so very much!

I hope today finds you in praise and thanksgiving to the One that loves us so much!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Thank you! We had a most grateful day with a few family and friends. We were most thankful for my brother-in-laws positive cancer surgery outcome (three parts of his body). But we are blessed with so very much!

I hope today finds you in praise and thanksgiving to the One that loves us so much!

Thanks. And good news for your brother-in-law.

Sorry to say but, Coronavirus calls into question his love for us.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

Thanks. And good news for your brother-in-law.

Sorry to say but, Coronavirus calls into question his love for us.

So let's say you create some beings you really care about. Some have had a genuine experience of you, the others have not. The ones that know you have received a free gift from you of eternal life, which is completely indestructible. However, these ones that know you, don't really appreciate or fully understand the power of this indestructible life gift. The ones that don't know you, you keep presenting the gift, but they keep merily traveling on their way, generally blind & oblivious to you and the danger that they are traveling toward - death.

So you allow a calamity to come upon both groups of people, that they find it hard to deal with. The ones with eternal life turn back to you and begin to realize the power of this awesome, indestructible life. Some of these even die a physical death, and then they fully realize how indestructible this life gift is you've given them. And the ones that don't know you, begin to realize their mortality and turn to you, receiving the indestructible life gift. Therefore both groups of people benefit!

"He will be our guide even unto death." Psalm 48:14

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So let's say you create some beings you really care about. Some have had a genuine experience of you, the others have not. The ones that know you have received a free gift from you of eternal life, which is completely indestructible. However, these ones that know you, don't really appreciate or fully understand the power of this indestructible life gift. The ones that don't know you, you keep presenting the gift, but they keep merily traveling on their way, generally blind & oblivious to you and the danger that they are traveling toward - death.

So you allow a calamity to come upon both groups of people, that they find it hard to deal with. The ones with eternal life turn back to you and begin to realize the power of this awesome, indestructible life. Some of these even die a physical death, and then they fully realize how indestructible this life gift is you've given them. And the ones that don't know you, begin to realize their mortality and turn to you, receiving the indestructible life gift. Therefore both groups of people benefit!

"He will be our guide even unto death." Psalm 48:14

Obviously, you haven't lost a son, or mother, or father ... like those suffering a death a minute today, saying they benefit.

I think the Christian eternal life makes Christians callus.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

Obviously, you haven't lost a son, or mother, or father ... like those suffering a death a minute today, saying they benefit.

I think the Christian eternal life makes Christians callus.

No I haven't lost anyone to the virus. Have you? If so, I am sorry. He still loves us.

I remember from back in the day (early 1070s) a Jesus freak type cartoon that showed a group of people blindly walking into a blazing fire. A couple Christians were between them and the fire, strenuously trying to keep the group from the flames. The caption was, "Man are these Christians pushy!"

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

No I haven't lost anyone to the virus. Have you? If so, I am sorry. He still loves us.

I remember from back in the day (early 1070s) a Jesus freak type cartoon that showed a group of people blindly walking into a blazing fire. A couple Christians were between them and the fire, strenuously trying to keep the group from the flames. The caption was, "Man are these Christians pushy!"

Theres something wrong with the cartoon. Hell does not exist.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

So you allow a calamity to come upon both groups of people, that they find it hard to deal with. The ones with eternal life turn back to you and begin to realize the power of this awesome, indestructible life. Some of these even die a physical death, and then they fully realize how indestructible this life gift is you've given them. And the ones that don't know you, begin to realize their mortality and turn to you, receiving the indestructible life gift. Therefore both groups of people benefit!

"He will be our guide even unto death." Psalm 48:14

But but, sometimes no matter how bad the situation gets, the person believes there is no God. Because how can a God create so much suffering and be sadistic just for the person to “turn to him”. I dont think it’s the right strategy. If I were God and trying to convince someone to see my point of view, I wouldnt bash them on the head. It would make the person hate me more.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

But but, sometimes no matter how bad the situation gets, the person believes there is no God. Because how can a God create so much suffering and be sadistic just for the person to “turn to him”. I dont think it’s the right strategy. If I were God and trying to convince someone to see my point of view, I wouldnt bash them on the head. It would make the person hate me more.

When someone is unconscious, they may need a shock to bring them awake - like cold water or a slap. Whispering in their ear might not do it . . .

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

The sex drive in a person's body is another very powerful hormonal reaction, which affects body and mind. Especially when we're young, these hormones are nearly overpowering to us. I remember doing things that now I wonder, "What was I thinking!?" But I do know - I was under the influence of a powerful hormone "drug." With that influence, sometimes I made good choices; other times not. I do have to credit His life in me for shepherding me to where I am today - in a committed, 24 year monogamous relationship with a wonderful woman. (People who know me now, are amazed when they discover my past exceedingly irresponsible behaviors of sex, drugs & rock-n-roll, that also got me into my share of "scrapes" with the law!) But a lot of where I am now depended on setting my will to make certain choices.

Again I'm not saying gayness is only about choice, but our mind and will is our mind and will. Emotions are fickle and can lead us all over the place if we let it, as can various hormonal reactions. Through the flesh we feel, but we can chose whether to allow those feelings to rule the day, or take another route (for me, that often means giving it to Jesus).

So please don't misunderstand - I'm not saying gayness is just a choice or just a feeling. But as said before - we really don't know exactly where gayness comes from, so let's not completely discount choice in this discussion either.

Hope that makes some sense . . .

I’m happy to learn you have brought up the hormone piece. This also applies to heterosexuals. Any loving healthyrelationship wont have fickle emotions, and thus, the sex component is not due to fickle emotions but commitment, trust, and love, hetero or non-hetero. I get that hormones can be a big thing when we’re young, but how do you explain it to two old ladies who have been in a commmited relationship since they were in their thirties? there’s a netflix documentary of this true story? would you say their entire relationship was based on hormones and menopause? And I know the brain stops developing after age 25. I’m almost 28 so it seems like im not a teenager anymore. My mind is clear when I do things with my wife.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Theres something wrong with the cartoon. Hell does not exist.

What, in your mind, does exist or happen after physical death?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

When someone is unconscious, they may need a shock to bring them awake - like cold water or a slap. Whispering in their ear might not do it . . .

Then why would God also give the other group the same treatment. Is everyone unconscious?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I’m happy to learn you have brought up the hormone piece. This also applies to heterosexuals. Any loving healthyrelationship wont have fickle emotions, and thus, the sex component is not due to fickle emotions but commitment, trust, and love, hetero or non-hetero. I get that hormones can be a big thing when we’re young, but how do you explain it to two old ladies who have been in a commmited relationship since they were in their thirties? there’s a netflix documentary of this true story? would you say their entire relationship was based on hormones and menopause? And I know the brain stops developing after age 25. I’m almost 28 so it seems like im not a teenager anymore. My mind is clear when I do things with my wife.

I hate to say this, but, seems you have a mouth made for a foot.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I’m happy to learn you have brought up the hormone piece. This also applies to heterosexuals. Any loving healthyrelationship wont have fickle emotions, and thus, the sex component is not due to fickle emotions but commitment, trust, and love, hetero or non-hetero. I get that hormones can be a big thing when we’re young, but how do you explain it to two old ladies who have been in a commmited relationship since they were in their thirties? there’s a netflix documentary of this true story? would you say their entire relationship was based on hormones and menopause? And I know the brain stops developing after age 25. I’m almost 28 so it seems like im not a teenager anymore. My mind is clear when I do things with my wife.

Many habits we carry with us all through life are set in us well before we're 25 or 30. So patterns get set. Some good, some maybe not so good. They feel normal to us, cuz that's what we know and are comfortable with. Habits can get formed pretty easily, and are not so easy for us to change.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Wait, I said that and now change my mind. On a "removed from real people" discussion like this, I think of kissing and sex. But if I was to talk to a person in real life who said "I am gay", the first thing I would think of are their inner attractions and feelings, not the sex.

So it seems like when you meet an lgbtq couple IRL, you seem to think more of the overall picture and see them like any other straight couple. Which makes sense, because those who know someone who is lgbtq in real life tend to be more pro- lgbtq

I’m glad you are honest with your answers. So any removal from real life, I think the point is some Christians tend to view homosexuals only in terms of sex and kissing. But they dont think that way when presented with the concept of a heterosexual couple. Or am I wrong here?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Many habits we carry with us all through life are set in us well before we're 25 or 30. So patterns get set. Some good, some maybe not so good. They feel normal to us, cuz that's what we know and are comfortable with. Habits can get formed pretty easily, and are not so easy for us to change.

Do are you saying that gay relationships are just formed out of habit?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by awareness

I hate to say this, but, seems you have a mouth made for a foot.

Lol 😝 please explain to the millenial. Im not sure what this idiom means

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

When someone is unconscious, they may need a shock to bring them awake - like cold water or a slap. Whispering in their ear might not do it . . .

So, I guess, God wanted us to love him with our free will, so he has to beat it out of us, violating our free will.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Do are you saying that gay relationships are just formed out of habit?

No. It was part of the matter of choice discussion. That is, since we don't know exactly causes gayness, we should not completely throw out the matter of choice, at least as being something of a partial factor in it.

Here's a progression you may have seen before (attributed to Lao Tzu):

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

So choices, and by extension, habits are powerful things. And throw in some hormones and an influence here and there, and now you're headed down a certain road and think that's your destiny . . . Not saying that's exactly how it is with everyone that's gay, but maybe with some perhaps?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

So, I guess, God wanted us to love him with our free will, so he has to beat it out of us, violating our free will.

You have the choice irregardless. He never promised you a rose garden, bro. (and if you did get a grand, life-long rose garden that eventually just lead to death, how loving would that be?)

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

You have the choice irregardless. He never promised you a rose garden, bro. (and if you did get a grand, life-long rose garden that eventually just lead to death, how loving would that be?)

Not much of a choice if he has to beat it out of us.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

No. It was part of the matter of choice discussion. That is, since we don't know exactly causes gayness, we should not completely throw out the matter of choice, at least as being something of a partial factor in it.

Here's a progression you may have seen before (attributed to Lao Tzu):

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

So choices, and by extension, habits are powerful things. And throw in some hormones and an influence here and there, and now you're headed down a certain road and think that's your destiny . . . Not saying that's exactly how it is with everyone that's gay, but maybe with some perhaps?

I get what you are saying. But I believe the Lao Tzu doesnt pertain to my situation. I had attractions since I was young befor I had thought concepts for it
If by your logic, then some become heterosexual due to habits down the road.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I get what you are saying. But I believe the Lao Tzu doesnt pertain to my situation. I had attractions since I was young befor I had thought concepts for it
If by your logic, then some become heterosexual due to habits down the road.

Who knows!? As we've said, it's pretty much an unknown, right?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Here's a progression you may have seen before (attributed to Lao Tzu):

Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.

You're quoting the Tao???????????? Wow! Your mind is way more open than I thought. The Tao is one of my most favorite books. I can't count how many times I've read it, in different translations.

By the way, when the Gospel of John is translated into Chinese, Logos is translated as Tao.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Who knows!? As we've said, it's pretty much an unknown, right?

okay then I guess it’s settled. We cant judge homosexuals for their acts since we dont know FOR SURE, the origins of their choices. Only God knows..

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

okay then I guess it’s settled. We cant judge homosexuals for their acts since we dont know FOR SURE, the origins of their choices. Only God knows..

Why would you want to judge homosexuals?

"Judge not so that you may not be judged," as Jesus said in Matthew 7:1. Good verse, and hard to live up too because we all judge. I don't know how much various ones have been all judgmental of homosexuals on here, although that seems to be your thinking, right? If verses are quoted, most of us on here see that as an objective standard - the law if you will. To me, only Christ in me can really live up to these high standards! The bible talks about a lot of other sins too (I know you don't think gayness a sin), and we quote them as well. But we all have the flesh, which is capable of a wide litany of "off the mark" things. In the end, we all only have one standing before God: "Nothing but the blood of Jesus!"

So quoting verses is just that. Listen, here's an example if I may - I like to have an evening drink while watching the sun go down. That's not being a drunkard, but on occasion I may make the drink a little too strong, or even have two. Then I start to get into the arena of being legally intoxicated. I am aware of the bible's admonition to not be drunk. If someone comes on here and starts quoting verses about not being drunk, that's fair game. I don't accuses them of judging or hating me - it's just a fact that if you do certain things, it's off the mark according to the Word. Yes, we do need Jesus!

Do you see that kind of talk as judgemental or hating or insensitive/intolerant or . . . ?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

You're quoting the Tao???????????? Wow! Your mind is way more open than I thought. The Tao is one of my most favorite books. I can't count how many times I've read it, in different translations.

By the way, when the Gospel of John is translated into Chinese, Logos is translated as Tao.

Interesting . . .

We have a business that helps people set goals and change habits/behaviors they want to. Therefore, we have been aware of and quote this list often. It helps people see there are often far-ranging consequences for seemingly small things they think, speak and do.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Why would you want to judge homosexuals?

"Judge not so that you may not be judged," as Jesus said in Matthew 7:1. Good verse, and hard to live up too because we all judge. I don't know how much various ones have been all judgmental of homosexuals on here, although that seems to be your thinking, right? If verses are quoted, most of us on here see that as an objective standard - the law if you will. To me, only Christ in me can really live up to these high standards! The bible talks about a lot of other sins too (I know you don't think gayness a sin), and we quote them as well. But we all have the flesh, which is capable of a wide litany of "off the mark" things. In the end, we all only have one standing before God: "Nothing but the blood of Jesus!"

So quoting verses is just that. Listen, here's an example if I may - I like to have an evening drink while watching the sun go down. That's not being a drunkard, but on occasion I may make the drink a little too strong, or even have two. Then I start to get into the arena of being legally intoxicated. I am aware of the bible's admonition to not be drunk. If someone comes on here and starts quoting verses about not being drunk, that's fair game. I don't accuses them of judging or hating me - it's just a fact that if you do certain things, it's off the mark according to the Word. Yes, we do need Jesus!

Do you see that kind of talk as judgemental or hating or insensitive/intolerant or . . . ?

Idk the way I see it, whenever you label something as “off the mark” thats a judgement in it of itself.

I can tell you why gayness its not a sin. Sure it can lead to fleshly desires like heterosexuals, but do we judge the heteros for doing the deed as much as homos? no so why should something inherent in someone be labeled as a sin? Same sex attraction inevitably leads to sex to complete a healthy romantic relationship. Just like any heterosexual relationship, Sure you can have a platonic heterosexual relationship, but do the majority of heterosexual couples keep it platonic? Only if they decide not to have children or if they’re old (the guy cant keep it hard).

Then again, you only rely on the bible or do you also rely on Taoism? So I guess homosexuality is off the mark due to your interpretations of the Bible but its not due to Taoism.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Then again, you only rely on the bible or do you also rely on Taoism?

Yeah, be a Christian like evangelicals' hero, C.S. Lewis :

The Chinese also speak of a great thing (the greatest thing) called the Tao. It is the reality beyond all predicates, the abyss that was before the Creator Himself. It is Nature, it is the Way, the Road. It is the Way in which the universe goes on, the Way in which things everlastingly emerge, stilly and tranquilly, into space and time. It is also the Way which every man should tread in imitation of that cosmic and supercosmic progression, conforming all activities to that great exemplar.'^ 'In ritual', say the Analects, 'it is harmony with Nature that is prized.'"^ The ancient Jews likewise praise the Law as being 'true'.''

This conception in all its forms, Platonic, AristoteUan, Stoic, Christian, and Oriental alike, I shall henceforth refer to for brevity simply as 'the Tao'.
~~ C.S. Lewis - The Abolition of Man (Kindle Locations 143-144).

I think Christians that embrace the Tao are kinder Christians, toward all, including LGBTQ.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

Idk the way I see it, whenever you label something as “off the mark” thats a judgement in it of itself.

I can tell you why gayness its not a sin. Sure it can lead to fleshly desires like heterosexuals, but do we judge the heteros for doing the deed as much as homos? no so why should something inherent in someone be labeled as a sin? Same sex attraction inevitably leads to sex to complete a healthy romantic relationship. Just like any heterosexual relationship, Sure you can have a platonic heterosexual relationship, but do the majority of heterosexual couples keep it platonic? Only if they decide not to have children or if they’re old (the guy cant keep it hard).

Then again, you only rely on the bible or do you also rely on Taoism? So I guess homosexuality is off the mark due to your interpretations of the Bible but its not due to Taoism.

As the old song says:

There ain't no good guys,
There ain't no bad guys,
There's only you and me,
And we just disagree.

But, at least we do have some clarity . . .

[zeek]

Originally Posted by awareness

You're quoting the Tao???????????? Wow! Your mind is way more open than I thought. The Tao is one of my most favorite books. I can't count how many times I've read it, in different translations.

By the way, when the Gospel of John is translated into Chinese, Logos is translated as Tao.

I suppose we shouldn't let the likelihood that this saying is misattributed to Lao Tsu stand in the way of potential dialogic rapprochement.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by zeek

I suppose we shouldn't let the likelihood that this saying is misattributed to Lao Tsu stand in the way of potential dialogic rapprochement.

I did a quick search on that Interweb thingie - you mean it might be wrong!?

Dear Quote Investigator: What do the following people have in common: Transcendentalist Ralph Waldo Emerson, Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu, supermarket magnate Frank Outlaw, spiritual teacher Gautama Buddha, and the father of Margaret Thatcher? Each one of these individuals has been credited with versions of the following quote:

Watch your thoughts. They become words. Watch your words. They become deeds. Watch your deeds. They become habits. Watch your habits. They become character. Character is everything.

FROM HERE - The winner? Not 100% sure, but perhaps Frank Outlaw said it first in current form (according to this)

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

I did a quick search on that Interweb thingie - you mean it might be wrong!?

FROM HERE - The winner? Not 100% sure, but perhaps Frank Outlaw said it first in current form (according to this)

Right. We shouldn't let that interfere with possible rapprochement among the brethren (sisters included). The presence of Jesus being a symbol of possible unity in the truth here.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

I suppose we shouldn't let the likelihood that this saying is misattributed to Lao Tsu stand in the way of potential dialogic rapprochement.

But I like that Sons attributed it to Lao Tzu. I like that he presented Lao Tzu, even tho the quote is not from Tzu.

I think Taoism/Daoism is great to introduce out here, even if it goes nowhere, which is likely, cuz it's not the Bible.

That's why I pointed out that C.S. Lewis embraced the Tao, in hopes that some out that are disinclined, might open up to it, at least a little bit.

Cuz I do really believe that Christians who embrace the Tao are kinder Christians, toward all, even toward the LGBTQ.

In Taoism homosexuals are two yins, or two yangs, coming together, where nothing is lost. Taoism doesn't speak of off or on the mark.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

I understand why local churcher's, and even believing exLCer's, would kick the LGBTQ down : they cling to the book, and the few verses that appear to condemn it, and not to Jesus' teachings on love (half the verses condemning it are way pre-Jesus - would Jesus say, let him without sin cast the first stone).

How many first stone throwers do we have out here?

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I am not making this up. I know at least seven sisters and two brothers who identify as lgbtq and are ex LCers. Do we really want to kick their voices down? How much better are we than the actual LC in dealing with these brothers and sisters, by silencing their experiences? They told me they are scared to post on this forum. Is this right? Is this Christian? Is this love? Where do these people go for support? I cant be the only one handling all of them but yet I am. I am very disappointed

Dear brother and sister, I know this is a heart-felt subject for you. Let me say this, in case it didn't come through effectively in all the myriad of posts - we love you, regardless of the lifestyle you choose. That was the stance of our Lord and Savior, and I believe it is the stance of Christians on this forum. Because we don't fully embrace the lifestyle of being gay, does not mean anything other than that. I know you don't see homesexulality as a sin; however, many Christians believe the Bible clearly states it is a sin - like many other things that are sin. We all have missed the mark and fall short of His glory, and therefore need His love, mercy and grace. All of us.

I think it is a mischaracterization to keep saying that LGBTQ+ people are "kicked" on here. If that is the case, for anything I might have stated, I ask your forgiveness. The Lord wants us to love everyone, and by His love for us and in us, we can love too. But that in no way diminishes the idea that Christians must accept what they see clearly as being off the mark (sin).

You do not see gayness as a sin, and that is your choice. Please respect that Bible-believing Christians can (and should) still love you, but at the same time cannot stand with the practice of a behavior we firmly believe that the bible teaches as being harmful.

A child is loved by parents regardless of what harmful thing the child might be doing to themselves. But the parents wouldn't be exhibiting that love if they turned a blind eye to the perceived harmful behavior. Full acceptance of harmful behaviors is not love.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Dear brother and sister, I know this is a heart-felt subject for you. Let me say this, in case it didn't come through effectively in all the myriad of posts - we love you, regardless of the lifestyle you choose. That was the stance of our Lord and Savior, and I believe it is the stance of Christians on this forum. Because we don't fully embrace the lifestyle of being gay, does not mean anything other than that. I know you don't see homesexulality as a sin; however, many Christians believe the Bible clearly states it is a sin - like many other things that are sin. We all have missed the mark and fall short of His glory, and therefore need His love, mercy and grace. All of us.

I think it is a mischaracterization to keep saying that LGBTQ+ people are "kicked" on here. If that is the case, for anything I might have stated, I ask your forgiveness. The Lord wants us to love everyone, and by His love for us and in us, we can love too. But that in no way diminishes the idea that Christians must accept what they see clearly as being off the mark (sin).

You do not see gayness as a sin, and that is your choice. Please respect that Bible-believing Christians can (and should) still love you, but at the same time cannot stand with the practice of a behavior we firmly believe that the bible teaches as being harmful.

A child is loved by parents regardless of what harmful thing the child might be doing to themselves. But the parents wouldn't be exhibiting that love if they turned a blind eye to the perceived harmful behavior. Full acceptance of harmful behaviors is not love.

I still dont understand why Christians think being lgbtq lifestyle is harmful. If they have never lived it, how would they know?

I do not think it’s unconditional love if someone cant accept an intrinsic part of you. The analogy with the child and parent to lgbtq and non-lgbtq christians is wrong. We are all children of God. You are not my parent and neither am I. So only God’s acceptance is important, not ours.

I will only forgive you if you retract your insinuation that you are somehow better than the lgbtq and elevate yourselves to be “parents” and that the lgbtq are like children needing guidance and obedience.

Maybe you are tonedeaf, but I have said this many times- lgbtq is not a “lifestyle”. it’s not a choice. it’s not harmful. And the bible did not teach monogamous gay relationships as harmful. And it’s people like you, StG that makes this forum abusive and prevents MANY MANY ex LC Church kids from posting/voicing their views. (I just happen to be one of the stubborn ones so be grateful for me putting up with you).

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I still dont understand why Christians think being lgbtq lifestyle is harmful. If they have never lived it, how would they know?

I do not think it’s unconditional love if someone cant accept an intrinsic part of you. The analogy with the child and parent to lgbtq and non-lgbtq christians is wrong. We are all children of God. You are not my parent and neither am I. So only God’s acceptance is important, not ours.

I will only forgive you if you retract your insinuation that you are somehow better than the lgbtq and elevate yourselves to be “parents” and that the lgbtq are like children needing guidance and obedience.

Maybe you are tonedeaf, but I have said this many times- lgbtq is not a “lifestyle”. it’s not a choice. it’s not harmful. And the bible did not teach monogamous gay relationships as harmful. And it’s people like you, StG that makes this forum abusive and prevents MANY MANY ex LC Church kids from posting/voicing their views. (I just happen to be one of the stubborn ones so be grateful for me putting up with you).

So be it. I've said what I've said. I think you misunderstand and I think what you put forth is generally a straw man fallacy (e.g., the parent thing was just an analogy - not an "elevation").

However, I'm reminded again of the old Dave Mason song and think this is where we are:
So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree

You've said what you've said many times - I don't buy it. I've said what I've said many times - you don't buy it. OK, we have clarity on each other's position, even if we don't have agreement.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

Dear brother and sister, I know this is a heart-felt subject for you. Let me say this, in case it didn't come through effectively in all the myriad of posts - we love you, regardless of the lifestyle you choose. That was the stance of our Lord and Savior, and I believe it is the stance of Christians on this forum. Because we don't fully embrace the lifestyle of being gay, does not mean anything other than that. I know you don't see homesexulality as a sin; however, many Christians believe the Bible clearly states it is a sin - like many other things that are sin. We all have missed the mark and fall short of His glory, and therefore need His love, mercy and grace. All of us.

I think it is a mischaracterization to keep saying that LGBTQ+ people are "kicked" on here. If that is the case, for anything I might have stated, I ask your forgiveness. The Lord wants us to love everyone, and by His love for us and in us, we can love too. But that in no way diminishes the idea that Christians must accept what they see clearly as being off the mark (sin).

You do not see gayness as a sin, and that is your choice. Please respect that Bible-believing Christians can (and should) still love you, but at the same time cannot stand with the practice of a behavior we firmly believe that the bible teaches as being harmful.

A child is loved by parents regardless of what harmful thing the child might be doing to themselves. But the parents wouldn't be exhibiting that love if they turned a blind eye to the perceived harmful behavior. Full acceptance of harmful behaviors is not love.

But what if it's not harmful ... like Serenity and her wife?

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I do not think it’s unconditional love if someone cant accept an intrinsic part of you. The analogy with the child and parent to lgbtq and non-lgbtq christians is wrong. We are all children of God. You are not my parent and neither am I. So only God’s acceptance is important, not ours.

I will only forgive you if you retract your insinuation that you are somehow better than the lgbtq and elevate yourselves to be “parents” and that the lgbtq are like children needing guidance and obedience.

I went out to take a walk with the dog and talk to Jesus. One thing came to me that I thought to clarify. You are, of course, right that I am not your parent. The parent/child relationship is just what I thought of at the time as a good example of a loving relationship . . . not that I was your parent! Perhaps a better analogy might be that of a friend regarding another friend. Is that clearer?

And regarding the unconditional love part - God certainly loves us when we are intrinsically all messed-up, right? He sees what is not good in us, and (with our permission) transforms us. So He accepts us as we are, but loves us enough to not let us remain in that condition.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

But what if it's not harmful ... like Serenity and her wife?

What if!? (do I need to evoke Dave Mason again here? )

[Sons to Glory!]

One other thought that came to me - we are not one by agreeing on our practices or teachings or whatever. Trying to do this is shallow and manmade.

Doesn't the Bible teach us the only true oneness is our oneness in Christ? All other attempts at oneness are superficial and will eventually fail. On here we get into all kinds of "interesting" discussions where there is often contention and not much agreement. But our hope is not in these things, but rather in the one Lord (and His one body & one Spirit; one faith: Eph 4:4-6)!

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

What if!? (do I need to evoke Dave Mason again here? )

You're just expecting that God condemns love.

[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by awareness

You're just expecting that God condemns love.

In the words of my Canuk buddies - Eh!?

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

And regarding the unconditional love part - God certainly loves us when we are intrinsically all messed-up, right? He sees what is not good in us, and (with our permission) transforms us. So He accepts us as we are, but loves us enough to not let us remain in that condition.

Okay I will play along. I think you are speaking for God too much here, and believe God’s stance is that lgbtq lifestyle is not good. And you imply that God does not love me enough because I am stuck in this situation with my wife. Do you see the blaring issues with this train of thought? But we cant speak for God, maybe He wants me to remain with my wife l, maybe not. And I have asked God countless times to transform me, maybe he’s a little busy. Maybe he simply thinks that I dont need to be transformed because due to lack of transformation, he’s telling me I dont need any fixing since He created me the way I am.

[ExChurchKid]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I dont need any fixing since He created me the way I am.

I think this is the correct answer.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Sons to Glory!

In the words of my Canuk buddies - Eh!?

I don't think I need to explain it ... but ... just in case ... you expect God to condemn those in loving same sex relationships ... cuz you think the Bible says so. But it doesn't.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by SerenityLives

I dont need any fixing since He created me the way I am.

To put it bluntly, those that think y'all need fixing have either half a brain, or half a heart, or both, when they should be loving toward what God has done, or you yourselves have done.

And dismissing or discounting ex-church-kids, gay or not, is reprehensible, and un-Christ-like.

[SerenityLives]

Originally Posted by awareness

I don't think I need to explain it ... but ... just in case ... you expect God to condemn those in loving same sex relationships ... cuz you think the Bible says so. But it doesn't.

Same sex relationships in modern times are differnt from those in ancient times. Why use an ancient book (of course the evangelists are going to say the bible is a universal book transcending space and time, like a flying saucer that cant be touched) as a measuring stick for modern society? Even the devil has evolved over the centuries, it’s not a big leap to want to make the bible evolve into something more tangible for the needs of each society.

And yes, we should definitely ignore the parts where it says we cant eat shellfish. And children who are being stoned to death for disobedience. Like on Santa’s naughty list. I’m sure all of us would be dead now if we followed the Bible to a T.