Boxjobox on modalism

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

It’s obvious we do not agree on some things, but I fear you have become like those you reject, not allowing a thorough discussion, but narrowing it only to those you agree with. It hurts the open discussion.

We have had a thorough discussion! There is nothing more to discuss!

I have repeated my views ten times, as has UntoHim, and you have repeated yours a hundred times. The discussion has not gone anywhere in a long, long time.

I have personally been confronted with anti-modalism rhetoric going on 44 years. I have read every verse you asked me to. But I will never believe your interpretation that Jesus is merely a man, and not God. Show me a verse, any verse, and I will agree with it. I'll give it a big "amen." I will believe it with my whole heart.

But that's never good enough for any Bible-thumping "apologist." They always demand more. They're all the same. They demand your humiliation and public shaming. They demand victory. They demand the laurel wreath. They want the temporary vain glory of winning their little verse wars on a public forum.

[Boxjobox]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We have had a thorough discussion! There is nothing more to discuss!

I have repeated my views ten times, as has UntoHim, and you have repeated yours a hundred times. The discussion has not gone anywhere in a long, long time.

I have personally been confronted with anti-modalism rhetoric going on 44 years. I have read every verse you asked me to. But I will never believe your interpretation that Jesus is merely a man, and not God. Show me a verse, any verse, and I will agree with it. I'll give it a big "amen." I will believe it with my whole heart.

But that's never good enough for any Bible-thumping "apologist." They always demand more. They're all the same. They demand your humiliation and public shaming. They demand victory. They demand the laurel wreath. They want the temporary vain glory of winning their little verse wars on a public forum.

Ohio, contrary to what Untohim want to present as my desires to get rid of verses, I have read the scripture for over 40 years now- all of it, very consistently, and often, very thoughtfully. I seek the truth, and want to know all things about gGod and his Christ. I wonder about, and consider just about everything I read in the scripture. I do not claim to have arrived, nor do I claim any great revelation.

Here is a verse Paul wrote Timothy- I should think we are all familiar with it, and I hope we all can consider it as a helpful verse in this whole discussion

5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

As I read Paul and his writings, I do not see him promoting a triune God, not do I see him setting up Jesus as God, rather I see him promoting One God, the Father. I do repeat this quite often in my posts because 1) it seem extremely imperative on Paul’s side that we get this. 2) I’ve been a Christian for over 40 years, and do not hear it talked about- everyone for whatever reasons seem to speak opposite this, which I find very concerning. 3) I feel it is the fundamental governor for all of Paul’s speaking and teaching. And should be the same with the believers.
Reading through Ephesians, which is a letter we all seem to find ultra important in things related to God, Christ, the Church and our walk in Christ, I can see this governor working. Paul speaks quite freely of the God of our Lord Jesus, of the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. Jesus is not just an ordinary man- he is the Christ, he is the plan God had from creation and before, he was the lamb OF God, God raised him from the dead, God exalted him over all creation, and here is another verse by Paul where Luke records what he speaks to the Athenians

30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

I see the man Christ Jesus constantly spoken of by Paul- I see nowhere a God Jesus. Jesus is the son of God. His mother Mary was told this

29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30So the angel told her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”

Paul said this

2the gospel He promised beforehand through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3regarding His Son, who was a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord..

Ohio, I think you have probably read quite a few of my posts over time, and I think you can say that I’ve quoted quite a bit of the NT in stating my points, and not just snippets of verses.

I wouldn’t want anyone to believe me, I do hope all who read consider strongly and thoughtfully the scripture. We are all on the road walking the same walk of trying to discern what’s what. We all went through the LC, where we were told what’s what. We all rejected WL’s what’s what. If you strongly feel that the scripture is saying Jesus is God, I understand that, I used to think that and practiced accordingly. The more I read and considered the whole NT, I did not find that the case, and my practices- especially in prayer and in relating to others has changed accordingly. The Jesus I know leads me to his God and Father. I think Matthew recorded about 4 or 5 chapters of Jesus doing just that. When I read the gospel of John, I see Jesus doing quite the same.

I hope this brief post will give you a better perspective on my life, belief and practice.

Boxjobox

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

Ohio, contrary to what Untohim want to present as my desires to get rid of verses, I have read the scripture for over 40 years now- all of it, very consistently, and often, very thoughtfully. I seek the truth, and want to know all things about gGod and his Christ. I wonder about, and consider just about everything I read in the scripture. I do not claim to have arrived, nor do I claim any great revelation.

Here is a verse Paul wrote Timothy- I should think we are all familiar with it, and I hope we all can consider it as a helpful verse in this whole discussion

5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

As I read Paul and his writings, I do not see him promoting a triune God, not do I see him setting up Jesus as God, rather I see him promoting One God, the Father. I do repeat this quite often in my posts because 1) it seem extremely imperative on Paul’s side that we get this. 2) I’ve been a Christian for over 40 years, and do not hear it talked about- everyone for whatever reasons seem to speak opposite this, which I find very concerning. 3) I feel it is the fundamental governor for all of Paul’s speaking and teaching. And should be the same with the believers.
Reading through Ephesians, which is a letter we all seem to find ultra important in things related to God, Christ, the Church and our walk in Christ, I can see this governor working. Paul speaks quite freely of the God of our Lord Jesus, of the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. Jesus is not just an ordinary man- he is the Christ, he is the plan God had from creation and before, he was the lamb OF God, God raised him from the dead, God exalted him over all creation, and here is another verse by Paul where Luke records what he speaks to the Athenians

30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

I see the man Christ Jesus constantly spoken of by Paul- I see nowhere a God Jesus. Jesus is the son of God. His mother Mary was told this

29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30So the angel told her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”

Paul said this

2the gospel He promised beforehand through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures, 3regarding His Son, who was a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by His resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord..

Ohio, I think you have probably read quite a few of my posts over time, and I think you can say that I’ve quoted quite a bit of the NT in stating my points, and not just snippets of verses.

I wouldn’t want anyone to believe me, I do hope all who read consider strongly and thoughtfully the scripture. We are all on the road walking the same walk of trying to discern what’s what. We all went through the LC, where we were told what’s what. We all rejected WL’s what’s what. If you strongly feel that the scripture is saying Jesus is God, I understand that, I used to think that and practiced accordingly. The more I read and considered the whole NT, I did not find that the case, and my practices- especially in prayer and in relating to others has changed accordingly. The Jesus I know leads me to his God and Father. I think Matthew recorded about 4 or 5 chapters of Jesus doing just that. When I read the gospel of John, I see Jesus doing quite the same.

I hope this brief post will give you a better perspective on my life, belief and practice.

Boxjobox

Just piping in with my own perspective. For me, up until this post of yours BJB, I have been hesitant to say I mostly agree with you because you have seemed to repeatedly say that Jesus is a man only. In this post you say enough extra that I'm on board with you regarding what you say in this post, where you acknowledge that Jesus is more than just a man. That was my hangup in previous posts.

Jesus IS more than just a man, I think we all agree on that.

And I don't think that Philippians 2:6 works to say that "Jesus is God".

Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

The phrase "did not consider being equal with God" or "did not consider equality with God" doesn't get us there. If I am equal with my spouse, it still doesn't mean I AM my spouse. My spouse is my spouse, and I am me. I can be equal with another person, but we cannot say that means I AM that other person. Same here. Jesus was in the form of God, and can surely claim equality with God (which I will get to in just a sec) but none of those things mean, even grammatically, that He IS God (the Father).

A coin has the form of a presidential face on it, but that form doesn't mean it IS the actual face of the president.

The greek for equality in Philippians 2:6, as has already been said, is "isa". It's the same word used in John 5:18:

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

And there we see what "equality with God" is. Jesus is calling God His own Father, thus making Himself equal with God. Equality with God means that God is His Father, not that He IS God. It doesn't mean He IS God the Father. In relation to us mortal humans, Jesus being the Son of God means that we afford Him the same respect, honor, deference, submission, glory, etc as God His (and our) Father. This doesn't mean that Jesus is God the Father. Even the trinity model shows that (that Jesus is not God the Father). We would regard a prince - the son of a king - as royalty, just as the king is royal too, by dint of his being the king's son. It doesn't mean, though, that the prince IS the king. (BJB, incidentally this is why I was speaking of "god-kind" a while back.....the "royalty" example gets across the same thought.)

P.S. are there plenty of other verses people point to about Jesus being God? Sure. I'm just dealing with the one that has been brought up in the last few posts.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Just piping in with my own perspective. For me, up until this post of yours BJB, I have been hesitant to say I mostly agree with you because you have seemed to repeatedly say that Jesus is a man only. In this post you say enough extra that I'm on board with you regarding what you say in this post, where you acknowledge that Jesus is more than just a man. That was my hangup in previous posts.

Jesus IS more than just a man, I think we all agree on that.

And I don't think that Philippians 2:6 works to say that "Jesus is God".

Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

The phrase "did not consider being equal with God" or "did not consider equality with God" doesn't get us there. If I am equal with my spouse, it still doesn't mean I AM my spouse. My spouse is my spouse, and I am me. I can be equal with another person, but we cannot say that means I AM that other person. Same here. Jesus was in the form of God, and can surely claim equality with God (which I will get to in just a sec) but none of those things mean, even grammatically, that He IS God (the Father).

A coin has the form of a presidential face on it, but that form doesn't mean it IS the actual face of the president.

The greek for equality in Philippians 2:6, as has already been said, is "isa". It's the same word used in John 5:18:

For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

And there we see what "equality with God" is. Jesus is calling God His own Father, thus making Himself equal with God. Equality with God means that God is His Father, not that He IS God. It doesn't mean He IS God the Father. In relation to us mortal humans, Jesus being the Son of God means that we afford Him the same respect, honor, deference, submission, glory, etc as God His (and our) Father. This doesn't mean that Jesus is God the Father. Even the trinity model shows that (that Jesus is not God the Father). We would regard a prince - the son of a king - as royalty, just as the king is royal too, by dint of his being the king's son. It doesn't mean, though, that the prince IS the king. (BJB, incidentally this is why I was speaking of "god-kind" a while back.....the "royalty" example gets across the same thought.)

P.S. are there plenty of other verses people point to about Jesus being God? Sure. I'm just dealing with the one that has been brought up in the last few posts.

For Jesus to be equal with God, doesn't mean that He is the Father, but does mean that Jesus is God. Too many verses tell us that. Jesus, as the eternal Logos of God, is also the eternal Son of God. How could He be anything other than God, if He has created all things and is worthy of our worship. He is the image of the invisible God. God the Father's image is His eternal Son of God. If Jesus were not God, then the Father would never share His worship, His throne, His glory with His Son.

Boxjobox somehow would like us to get the impression that Jesus began in the womb of Mary, that He was a unique man, who became Messiah. That view sees only the seen, and not the unseen.

"Before Abraham was, I am."

For Boxjobox to promote the idea that the man Jesus was exalted by God and now at the right hand of His throne (but denying His eternal deity) is to me the same as the RCC exalting the "blessed virgin" Mary. Read their theology. Billions believe that sinless and perfect Mary is their co-Redeemer, has ascended to the heavens, has been crowned with glory and honor, and is now deserving all the prayers and praise of all God's children.

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For Jesus to be equal with God, doesn't mean that He is the Father, but does mean that Jesus is God. Too many verses tell us that. Jesus, as the eternal Logos of God, is also the eternal Son of God. How could He be anything other than God, if He has created all things and is worthy of our worship. He is the image of the invisible God. God the Father's image is His eternal Son of God. If Jesus were not God, then the Father would never share His worship, His throne, His glory with His Son.

Boxjobox somehow would like us to get the impression that Jesus began in the womb of Mary, that He was a unique man, who became Messiah. That view sees only the seen, and not the unseen.

"Before Abraham was, I am."

For Boxjobox to promote the idea that the man Jesus was exalted by God and now at the right hand of His throne (but denying His eternal deity) is to me the same as the RCC exalting the "blessed virgin" Mary. Read their theology. Billions believe that sinless and perfect Mary is their co-Redeemer, has ascended to the heavens, has been crowned with glory and honor, and is now deserving all the prayers and praise of all God's children.

As eye-rolling as this sounds, I think what's at the core of this issue is literally "what do you mean by 'God'?"

For me, it's nonsensical to say, "Jesus is God but He's not God the Father", if the word "God" both times in that sentence means exactly the same thing. It's totally self-contradictory, and creation itself shows us God is not a contradictory being. It is true that Jesus repeatedly says "there is one God, the Father, etc....." Okay then, so what does it mean when we seemingly contradict Jesus's own words and say Jesus is God?

This, again, is what I was trying to get at with "God-kind", or even family. For example, Elohim, as we know, is a plural construct. Other words that end in "-im" like Nephilim, etc.....refer to a whole race of beings. I have no problem saying Jesus is divine, eternal, of God-kind, of the divine family,or an eternal race, etc. As such, Jesus being the eternal Word of God makes perfect sense. His being the I Am makes sense, because He thus always was/is/will be. His being slain before the foundation of the world, all things coming into being through Him, etc.... makes sense because He's God-kind and thus shares all those eternal attributes of God the Father.

When BJB says "Jesus is not God" and when Ohio and Unto say "Jesus IS God"......I'm serious here.....what does each of you mean by "God"?

When there is "one God, the Father" and we say "Jesus is God but not God the Father".....what do we actually mean by that last sentence? What does "God" mean to you there?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

When BJB says "Jesus is not God" and when Ohio and Unto say "Jesus IS God"......I'm serious here.....what does each of you mean by "God"?

When there is "one God, the Father" and we say "Jesus is God but not God the Father".....what do we actually mean by that last sentence? What does "God" mean to you there?

For starters,

God alone is eternal, without beginning or end.

God alone is the creator of all things, and God upholds all things in the universe.

God alone shall be worshiped, and no other. He is Lord of all.

God alone knows all, knows our hearts, knows the future. Omniscient.

God alone is all powerful, power without limits. Power to heal, to give and take life.

[UntoHim]

Trapped brings up a good point, and one that is very much related to theme of the thread.

Originally Posted by Trapped

When there is "one God, the Father" and we say "Jesus is God but not God the Father".....what do we actually mean by that last sentence? What does "God" mean to you there?

The shorthand answer is: God exists as three divine Persons in one divine Being. The three of the one divine Trinity have existed from eternity past. The three of the the one divine Trinity are equal in their divinity, love, power and glory. The three of the one divine Trinity do have differing "rolls". There have been many great and theologically rich hymns which touch upon the Trinity written over the centuries. I'll just give the choruses of a couple of them:

Praise the Father who has purposed!
Praise the Son who all has done!
Praise the Spirit who transmitteth!
Praise the Three who work as one!
Margaret Jenkins Harris

Thank you, oh my father
For giving us Your Son
And leaving Your Spirit
'Til the work on Earth is done
Keith Green

Lest I ware out the Caps Lock key on my keyboard, I'll refer you all to someone who possessed a far greater ability to articulate the Trinity - the late Nabeel Qureshi, who just happened to be born and raised as a devout Muslim. Muslims are the strongest of monotheists. Yet God did a miraculous thing in this young man. He ended up writing a very good book: Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus. No, I am not saying that Qureshi was/is the one trinitarian with the one teaching of the Trinity for the age. However I think you will find his explanations rational, cohesive and biblical as you will ever find.

Here is the short 3 Minute version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL2q_Mg-D58

Here is the longer 8 Minute version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0JpwOSKRC0
-

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Trapped

When BJB says "Jesus is not God" and when Ohio and Unto say "Jesus IS God"......I'm serious here.....what does each of you mean by "God"?

When there is "one God, the Father" and we say "Jesus is God but not God the Father".....what do we actually mean by that last sentence? What does "God" mean to you there?

There are several lines of thought which are commonly used to perpetrate the notion that "Jesus is not God." Yes, Jesus does say that "the Father is greater than I," and does, as a man on earth, pray to the Father. Jesus regularly points all men to believe God, fear God, honor God, obey God, worship God, pray to God, etc. referring to His and our heavenly Father.

The normal and natural "assumption" when reading all these verses is to "assume" that Jesus is not God. But where does the scripture say that anywhere? And, we all know that the Bible is filled with verses that warn us not to worship man, not to worship idols, not to worship creatures, not to worship creation, not to worship angels, not to worship celestial bodies, etc. Yet Jesus Christ, even as a newborn babe in Bethlehem, was worshiped! He was worshiped throughout his ministry, before and after His death, and now still, more than ever, is worshiped in the heavens.

How can any of us stomach such an egregious contradiction? ONLY GOD SHALL EVER BE WORSHIPED BY HIS PEOPLE, and yet there is never a verse in scripture to condemn, dissuade, or correct the worship of Jesus! How can we conclude anything else but that both the Father and the Son are God. To believe in one is to believe in the other. To worship one is to worship the other. To love one is to love the other. Jesus summed it all up prior to the cross saying, "believe in God, believe also in Me."

We just cannot use faulty human logic to conclude, along with Boxjobox, that Jesus is not God, based on several erroneous assumptions.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Ohio

We just cannot use faulty human logic

Logic? What's logic got to do with it? Logic is the problem from the get-go.

[Boxjobox]

Originally Posted by Trapped

As eye-rolling as this sounds, I think what's at the core of this issue is literally "what do you mean by 'God'?"

For me, it's nonsensical to say, "Jesus is God but He's not God the Father", if the word "God" both times in that sentence means exactly the same thing. It's totally self-contradictory, and creation itself shows us God is not a contradictory being. It is true that Jesus repeatedly says "there is one God, the Father, etc....." Okay then, so what does it mean when we seemingly contradict Jesus's own words and say Jesus is God?

This, again, is what I was trying to get at with "God-kind", or even family. For example, Elohim, as we know, is a plural construct. Other words that end in "-im" like Nephilim, etc.....refer to a whole race of beings. I have no problem saying Jesus is divine, eternal, of God-kind, of the divine family,or an eternal race, etc. As such, Jesus being the eternal Word of God makes perfect sense. His being the I Am makes sense, because He thus always was/is/will be. His being slain before the foundation of the world, all things coming into being through Him, etc.... makes sense because He's God-kind and thus shares all those eternal attributes of God the Father.

When BJB says "Jesus is not God" and when Ohio and Unto say "Jesus IS God"......I'm serious here.....what does each of you mean by "God"?

When there is "one God, the Father" and we say "Jesus is God but not God the Father".....what do we actually mean by that last sentence? What does "God" mean to you there?

Paul, in 1 Cor 8 is talking about idols and the religious situation in Corinth that the believers have to deal with. PAUL says, not boxjobox that to us there is but ONE GOD THE FATHER. Why is there such a need to stumble over this? If Paul is making such a definitive statement of Christian belief, let’s accept it as a main point of the foundational belief of Paul and the Church.

Jesus is the Christ, the son of the Living God. God made him Lord and Christ. This is what is preached, taught, believed by the foundational Church. And the scripture testifies to this which God has done. It was a new thing, that was well talked about and explained both to the Jews and the gentiles, because this was the new news- the gospel. If there was new news that a man is God, that God is triune, that God is three people, that God became a man, I’m sorry, but it’s not proclaimed in my NT scripture. Something that profound- so different than what the Jews and the gentiles knew, would HAVE TO BE preached, taught, explained on every page of the NT. Is it logical to say it was taught, it just didn’t make it into the scripture? Come now!

But it was developed, preached, taught, sung written about starting in the 3rd to 5th century and practiced for 1500 years after. (After so many were tortured and murdered who did not accept it). I mean, look at it historically, and stop trying to bend scripture to conform to it. Now. What did Jesus tell the church in Pergemum and Thyatira?

[Boxjobox]

Originally Posted by Ohio

For Jesus to be equal with God, doesn't mean that He is the Father, but does mean that Jesus is God. Too many verses tell us that. Jesus, as the eternal Logos of God, is also the eternal Son of God. How could He be anything other than God, if He has created all things and is worthy of our worship. He is the image of the invisible God. God the Father's image is His eternal Son of God. If Jesus were not God, then the Father would never share His worship, His throne, His glory with His Son.

Boxjobox somehow would like us to get the impression that Jesus began in the womb of Mary, that He was a unique man, who became Messiah. That view sees only the seen, and not the unseen.

"Before Abraham was, I am."

For Boxjobox to promote the idea that the man Jesus was exalted by God and now at the right hand of His throne (but denying His eternal deity) is to me the same as the RCC exalting the "blessed virgin" Mary. Read their theology. Billions believe that sinless and perfect Mary is their co-Redeemer, has ascended to the heavens, has been crowned with glory and honor, and is now deserving all the prayers and praise of all God's children.

Ohio, I’m going off what was preached in Acts- Peter, John, Phillip, Stephen, Paul. I’m going off what Paul told us in Galatians of the gospe, and what Paul told the Corinthians was that gospel ( read 1 Cor 15). No one seems that interested in declaring that Jesus is God! But they all DO seem very fervent in declaring that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God and that God raised this man from the dead, and seated him at His right hand and that this man would return. They all talked about God as God and Christ as Christ.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Boxjobox

Ohio, I’m going off what was preached in Acts- Peter, John, Phillip, Stephen, Paul. I’m going off what Paul told us in Galatians of the gospe, and what Paul told the Corinthians was that gospel ( read 1 Cor 15). No one seems that interested in declaring that Jesus is God! But they all DO seem very fervent in declaring that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God and that God raised this man from the dead, and seated him at His right hand and that this man would return. They all talked about God as God and Christ as Christ.

You keep repeating your same old lines, but never respond to actual points made. Though not emphasized directly, there are numerous verses that indicate Jesus is God. Why did you not comment on my points about only God is being worshiped?

[awareness]

And then there's :

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God"

This is in 3 of our major witnesses, Matthew, Mark, and Luke. John doesn't have it.

But John, 6 decades after Jesus, has the Logos preamble in chapter 1. Yet unlike the three witnesses, it has no red letter, and doesn't even cite who the author is.

So the weight goes with the three witnesses, rather than with the non-red letter preamble of John.

[Boxjobox]

Originally Posted by Ohio

You keep repeating your same old lines, but never respond to actual points made. Though not emphasized directly, there are numerous verses that indicate Jesus is God. Why did you not comment on my points about only God is being worshiped?

I guess because what you consider “ same old lines” I find quite convincing and emphasize that the guiding principal of the apostles and actors in the NT have the mindset that there is one God, the Father and that all things are of Him, and through Him, and to Him. ....and you are Christ’s and Christ is God’s. The mindset of Paul is expressed in his writing, and his writing leads us to appreciate God and all God has done with, by, through and in Christ Jesus.
And Jesus tells us through John that eternal life is to know the Father, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he sent. I don’t find that an old line, but rather a very pregnant, super important concept to grasp.

And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.


Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

I think you are trying to override the given word of there being but one God, the Father by trying to equate Jesus and God. We should not have other gods than the one true God, the Father- none other should be worshipped as God- Jesus told that to the devil.
However worship-bow down before, seems to be used in other contexts, that are not related to the commandment to only worship one as God: the Father. God is Spirit and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such.