The Sectarian Mindset of Local Church Leaders

[Cal]

When the Lord says in Revelation, "Come out of her, my people," speaking of coming out of Babylon the Great Harlot, assuming Babylon represents a corrupt religious system, what do you think he is talking about?

Is he talking about leaving the church one is in, or is he telling churches to stop being tethered to evil systems? I think in many cases it must be the latter.

I went to a wedding this weekend in a Catholic church in Arlington, TX. It was a simple non-ornate parish and the presence of the Lord was there. The word of God was pure and clear. I saw no religious corruption.

Now, if the Lord is calling these people to leave Babylon, what is he telling them to do? Abandon their church and the Christians they have relationships with? I don't think so. That's not building, it's tearing down. I think He's calling them to cut ties with evil systems.

Same with LRC churches, I would think.

[rayliotta]

Originally Posted by Igzy

When the Lord says in Revelation, "Come out of her, my people," speaking of coming out of Babylon the Great Harlot, assuming Babylon represents a corrupt religious system, what do you think he is talking about?

Thinking about my own experience, I can see how some localities could probably make this transition. But for many (most in the US?), the local culture is so compromised, so mixed up with the "Recovery culture".... At some point, you have to ask, what would it even mean for them to continue on together outside the Recovery? What is their identity outside of the program?

[rayliotta]

Some here have recently mentioned the way some marriages have not survived leaving the Recovery. The lack of a real relationship outside the context of the Recovery system.

To me this is similar to the idea of a local church cutting ties with Anaheim and Austin, in many cases.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Igzy

When the Lord says in Revelation, "Come out of her, my people," speaking of coming out of Babylon the Great Harlot, assuming Babylon represents a corrupt religious system, what do you think he is talking about?

Is he talking about leaving the church one is in, or is he telling churches to stop being tethered to evil systems? I think in many cases it must be the latter.

I went to a wedding this weekend in a Catholic church in Arlington, TX. It was a simple non-ornate parish and the presence of the Lord was there. The word of God was pure and clear. I saw no religious corruption.

Now, if the Lord is calling these people to leave Babylon, what is he telling them to do? Abandon their church and the Christians they have relationships with? I don't think so. That's not building, it's tearing down. I think He's calling them to cut ties with evil systems.

Same with LRC churches, I would think.

Interesting question. I think this is what the book of Ruth says. On a superficial reading of the Bible you would think that the OT condemns Ruth because she is a Moabitess. But as Boaz points out you have a contradiction in the OT, Ruth is also a widow of an Israelite. So which verse do you heed? Boaz and the book of Ruth gives us the answer, Ruth is judged by her own heart. In her own heart she said "your people will be my people". Ruth decided that she was a widow of an Israelite first and foremost. This may be an example of "come out of her my people". We also chose in our heart to leave a corrupt, evil, worldly system. Since this is a symptom of fallen man it should be no surprise that religious systems can also become infected with a corrupt, evil system. So if you look at the Lord's letters to the churches in Revelation you can see that the only requirement he puts on those in the Catholic church is to be pure in heart and to not know the deep things of Satan.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Interesting question. I think this is what the book of Ruth says. On a superficial reading of the Bible you would think that the OT condemns Ruth because she is a Moabitess. But as Boaz points out you have a contradiction in the OT, Ruth is also a widow of an Israelite. So which verse do you heed? Boaz and the book of Ruth gives us the answer, Ruth is judged by her own heart. In her own heart she said "your people will be my people". Ruth decided that she was a widow of an Israelite first and foremost. This may be an example of "come out of her my people". We also chose in our heart to leave a corrupt, evil, worldly system. Since this is a symptom of fallen man it should be no surprise that religious systems can also become infected with a corrupt, evil system. So if you look at the Lord's letters to the churches in Revelation you can see that the only requirement he puts on those in the Catholic church is to be pure in heart and to not know the deep things of Satan.

Brother ZNP, you bring up some of the tragic ironies that captured me 35 years ago. That summer training on Revelations was my first, and the level of hatred spewed forth towards the RCC, where I grew up, was highlighted by the call, "come out of her, My people." Yet, to the church in Thyatira, supposedly the prophetic type of the RCC, there was no such call by the Lord. Instead, that call was used by the Recovery to "come out" of all of "degraded Christianity," as if the Recovery was the only true testimony of Christ on earth.

Personally, my own gospel became leavened by that teaching. Instead of preaching Christ and Him crucified to my friends and family, I now preached "escape" from the idolatry of Jezebel. Little did I know back in those days in the book of Revelation, Max Rapoport rose to prominence by arm-twisting Daystar investors, and the chaos of the "universal coordination of the one new man," was about to hit the LC near you.

It's no wonder WL and the "Blendeds to be" had to silence Ingalls and so many other whistle-blowers. They had begun to look at the deformed and degraded LSM monstrosity, and cried out, "come out of her, My people."

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Igzy

When the Lord says in Revelation, "Come out of her, my people," speaking of coming out of Babylon the Great Harlot, assuming Babylon represents a corrupt religious system, what do you think he is talking about?

Is he talking about leaving the church one is in, or is he telling churches to stop being tethered to evil systems? I think in many cases it must be the latter.

I went to a wedding this weekend in a Catholic church in Arlington, TX. It was a simple non-ornate parish and the presence of the Lord was there. The word of God was pure and clear. I saw no religious corruption.

Now, if the Lord is calling these people to leave Babylon, what is he telling them to do? Abandon their church and the Christians they have relationships with? I don't think so. That's not building, it's tearing down. I think He's calling them to cut ties with evil systems.

Same with LRC churches, I would think.

I wonder if it is a call to separate from the secular/political realm. While not entirely linked in the imagery, we have a political system represented by the beast, and something that seems to be sort of a melting pot called Babylon the Great. We can point to certain kinds of corruption in the churches from day one. But at some level, one of the most corrupting things was the acceptance by some of the State's offer of being "the religion." Rather than discussing the gnostic issue, they simply made it illegal. And to this day there has been a marriage of church and state within so many places. Even in America.

I believe that the call is not to come out of a church. But for the church to come out of its unholy alliances. To return to its position as the only true Christian Nation. I'm not saying that things beyond the political are not embedded in that call to "come out of her." But just like those 7 churches in Revelation 2 and 3, no one was called to "leave the church," but to overcome corruption. Even "that woman, Jezebel" was not a cause to leave the church.

In other words, it is not about people coming out of the church, but the church coming out of unholy alliances. Out of places of corruption.

And in the context of this thread, I sense that looking to the most vague writing in the NT to declare who/what/where to leave/come out of is sort of setting a different kind of sectarian mindset in place.

I appreciate your comment about the RCC wedding. There may be much to say about some kinds of corruption that they can overcome. But to read "Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots" as being the RCC and the Protestant groups that split out from it, while not entirely implausible, seems to be a stretch with a purpose. And that purpose is to somehow taint all the others without tainting your own group that is really just one more of the Protestant "harlot" groups (accepting their reading).

I would more nearly call the Moral Majority, or their successor "Christian right" groups as being the ones getting "into bed" with the world/government. The church needs to separate from those. I'm sure that there are other things.

[Indiana]

www.twoturmoils.com/KangasToeingPartyLine.pdf

I believe that when Mr. Kangas saw that John Ingalls was not following the party’s line of thinking, he stepped up to the plate to excoriate him in his book on Ingalls in 1989. Albeit, he did so merely by toe-ing the party’s line of thinking – not through investigation. You don't dare do that.


http://www.twoturmoils.com/EighteenP...considered.pdf