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[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I read and listen to liberal news all the time.

One defining characteristic of liberal news is deceit.

Consequently, it is very difficult to engage in meaningful discussion with many liberal leaning friends and family. Their so-called facts are all distorted.

I'm always seeing similarities between liberals and LSM. Sure there is deceit. There's also tossing out facts and relying extensively on feelings. Just as the Berkeley riot demonstrated, they want contrary views to be silenced.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Terry

I'm always seeing similarities between liberals and LSM. Sure there is deceit. There's also tossing out facts and relying extensively on feelings. Just as the Berkeley riot demonstrated, they want contrary views to be silenced.

Can you give some specific examples of what you mean similarities and relying on feelings over facts and deceit?

And who were those masked rioters that wanted to silence contrary views in Berkeley? They seemed pretty well organized.

Do you suppose they were Berkeley students? They put that guy Yiannopoulos on the map.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Can you give some specific examples of what you mean similarities and relying on feelings over facts and deceit?

And who were those masked rioters that wanted to silence contrary views in Berkeley? They seemed pretty well organized.

Do you suppose they were Berkeley students? They put that guy Yiannopoulos on the map.

Good questions. Arrest those rioters, and find out who is fronting them.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Good questions. Arrest those rioters, and find out who is fronting them.

I agree. In the videos they are breaking shop windows and setting off explosives and reports said that they assaulted the police. Yet I did not hear that any were arrested. What's up with that?

A rumor on the Left is that Breitbart sent them to get attention for Yiannopoulos, and to give Trump an excuse to deny funds to UC, Berkeley. A rumor on the Right is that George Soros sent them.

UC Berkeley allowed the guy to speak, so sanctioning the university is wrong. There were peaceful protesters there. No problem. So, the question remains, who were the thugs? We'll probably never know.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

No problem. So, the question remains, who were the thugs? We'll probably never know.

Are you serious? The only way we will never know is if they were very well supported and trained.

The police department can now gather the smart phone data (what phone you have and all the information on that phone) from a crowd. They use a device that mimics a cell phone tower.

We also have CTV that blankets virtually the entire city. Regardless how these rioters got to the riot we can view the video and see them prior to them putting on masks. If they come by Public transport we have them. If they walked we have them. If they drove we have them. Once we have a license plate to a car we can immediately find that car, there are license plate readers strategically located all over the cities and highways. These will immediately alert police when a license plate passes a location.

That is enough information to get subpoenas, which will get into email accounts, texts, phone calls, and snail mail. How was it organized? We will be able to get that as well.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Are you serious? The only way we will never know is if they were very well supported and trained.

The police department can now gather the smart phone data (what phone you have and all the information on that phone) from a crowd. They use a device that mimics a cell phone tower.

We also have CTV that blankets virtually the entire city. Regardless how these rioters got to the riot we can view the video and see them prior to them putting on masks. If they come by Public transport we have them. If they walked we have them. If they drove we have them. Once we have a license plate to a car we can immediately find that car, there are license plate readers strategically located all over the cities and highways. These will immediately alert police when a license plate passes a location.

That is enough information to get subpoenas, which will get into email accounts, texts, phone calls, and snail mail. How was it organized? We will be able to get that as well.

Aren't violent protesters immune from prosecution in sanctuary cities?

Sounds crazy, buts that's where we're headed.

Anybody else think CalExit is possible?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Aren't violent protesters immune from prosecution in sanctuary cities?

Sounds crazy, buts that's where we're headed.

Anybody else think CalExit is possible?

No, if you commit a crime in a city you are not immune from prosecution, unless of course you have diplomatic immunity. That is a different story. The country would pay the price one way or another for the damage done, the diplomat would be sent home, and presumably once home would be disciplined.

As for CalExit, we have a serious problem with energy. There is an established economy that is based on fossil fuel. Any of a number of reasonable remedies to encourage renewable energy like solar and wind, while at the same time addressing the pollution of carbon emitters will hurt the bottom line of those currently in power. We are in the midst of an energy revolution and like all revolutions it means those at the top are now headed to the bottom. They resist that move. It is much easier for those without an investment in the current economy to see the clear and logical solution.

The fossil fuel industry was under the assumption that they had until 2050, even quite recently they thought they had until 2030, but the Titanic is already starting to list in the water and it is only 2017.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Are you serious? The only way we will never know is if they were very well supported and trained.

The police department can now gather the smart phone data (what phone you have and all the information on that phone) from a crowd. They use a device that mimics a cell phone tower.

We also have CTV that blankets virtually the entire city. Regardless how these rioters got to the riot we can view the video and see them prior to them putting on masks. If they come by Public transport we have them. If they walked we have them. If they drove we have them. Once we have a license plate to a car we can immediately find that car, there are license plate readers strategically located all over the cities and highways. These will immediately alert police when a license plate passes a location.

That is enough information to get subpoenas, which will get into email accounts, texts, phone calls, and snail mail. How was it organized? We will be able to get that as well.

Maybe Soros is paying the police to look the other way. And they're not using Stingray, or checking CTV. Or maybe the police are Breitfart supporters.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by awareness

Maybe Soros is paying the police to look the other way. And they're not using Stingray, or checking CTV. Or maybe the police are Breitfart supporters.

My point is that if these "ninja protesters" are not found it is proof that they are not your typical college protester, but mercenaries with specific training on forensic countermeasures. In other words paid protesters with para military background.

[TLFisher]

Originally Posted by zeek

Can you give some specific examples of what you mean similarities and relying on feelings over facts and deceit?

Where shall I start?

• speaking positively publicly
• shadow government
• transparency or a lack of
• immigration
• healthcare reform

A general similarity I've seen since 2012 is if someone holds a conservative view, a liberal will consider them to be an "opposer", "negative", "divisive" etc. Labels I have heard commonly used by LSM promoters against brothers/sisters who don't share the same views/agenda.
Shadow government- true or conspiracy paranoia to undermine the current US administration we've seen similar tactics orchestrated by LSM/DCP against GLA localities that didn't go along with LSM edicts. Setting up special meetings, offering "fellowship" to those brothers pro-LSM as a means to undermine the local administration.
Immigration-facts are tossed out in favor of feelings. It was not a "muslim ban", but a ban on seven countries. Reaction is as if Trump was the first president to have a ban. Fact is every president since 1979 has had some sort of a ban on a nation. Those being detained by Immigration and Customs are not legal immigrants, but illegal immigrants. Key words such as "temporary" and "illegal" are ignored by those protesting immigration decisions. Those on agreement with left come across as if there shouldn't be any immigration or Customs laws. No borders with people to freely enter and leave the United States as they please.
In the local churches it is very similar in regard quarantines/disfellowship of brothers. I asked for proof why Titus Chu was to be quarantined, nothing. It's based on feeling and not on fact. The only thing of fact LSM may not admit to is it's based purely on revenue.
I've been observing for years regarding Steve Isitt and the churches of Bellevue and Seattle. Leading brothers from those localities don't respond to requests of fellowship. I asked one brother from the Church in Renton, why can't the brothers come to fellowship with Steve. His response, "we feel Steve can't be trusted". A brother being kept from fellowship based on feeling and not fact. Quarantines of the late 1980's. Based on feeling and not fact.
Healthcare Reform (ACA/Obamacare)- When PPCA began in 2007 I was onboard. Gave the Obama Administration benefit of the doubt with healthcare reform. The message delivered was deceitful. "Affordable Healthcare". Hardly the case. Experience for many individuals and businesses is unaffordable healthcare due to the regulations and taxes tied to it. Yet the liberals view this as the best vehicle for healthcare reform. Undoubtedly whatever suggestion Trump's administration may have in adjusting healthcare reform will be met with steadfast opposition from the liberals.
Much is the same in the LSM local churches. They are deceitful when they say local churches aren't ministry churches. They are deceitful when they say each local church is locally administered. How local churches proceed with LSM publications as the way to go is no different than obamacare. It just isn't working. Look at the numbers in the localities. When I last visited San Bernardino in 2014, I saw many of the brothers and sisters I knew from years earlier. "The Ministry" has produced little fruit other than churchkids now adults with children of their own. Just like obamacare, the system LSM churches is an inefficient system in dire need of reform. Just like obamacare, those tied to LSM are passionately prideful in believing their system is the best way in spite of what facts may show.
During Obama's administration, he touted transparency, but was anything but. He like the blended brothers proved to be more deceptive than transparent.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Terry

Where shall I start?

• speaking positively publicly
• shadow government
• transparency or a lack of
• immigration
• healthcare reform

A general similarity I've seen since 2012 is if someone holds a conservative view, a liberal will consider them to be an "opposer", "negative", "divisive" etc. Labels I have heard commonly used by LSM promoters against brothers/sisters who don't share the same views/agenda.
Shadow government- true or conspiracy paranoia to undermine the current US administration we've seen similar tactics orchestrated by LSM/DCP against GLA localities that didn't go along with LSM edicts. Setting up special meetings, offering "fellowship" to those brothers pro-LSM as a means to undermine the local administration.
Immigration-facts are tossed out in favor of feelings. It was not a "muslim ban", but a ban on seven countries. Reaction is as if Trump was the first president to have a ban. Fact is every president since 1979 has had some sort of a ban on a nation. Those being detained by Immigration and Customs are not legal immigrants, but illegal immigrants. Key words such as "temporary" and "illegal" are ignored by those protesting immigration decisions. Those on agreement with left come across as if there shouldn't be any immigration or Customs laws. No borders with people to freely enter and leave the United States as they please.
In the local churches it is very similar in regard quarantines/disfellowship of brothers. I asked for proof why Titus Chu was to be quarantined, nothing. It's based on feeling and not on fact. The only thing of fact LSM may not admit to is it's based purely on revenue.
I've been observing for years regarding Steve Isitt and the churches of Bellevue and Seattle. Leading brothers from those localities don't respond to requests of fellowship. I asked one brother from the Church in Renton, why can't the brothers come to fellowship with Steve. His response, "we feel Steve can't be trusted". A brother being kept from fellowship based on feeling and not fact. Quarantines of the late 1980's. Based on feeling and not fact.
Healthcare Reform (ACA/Obamacare)- When PPCA began in 2007 I was onboard. Gave the Obama Administration benefit of the doubt with healthcare reform. The message delivered was deceitful. "Affordable Healthcare". Hardly the case. Experience for many individuals and businesses is unaffordable healthcare due to the regulations and taxes tied to it. Yet the liberals view this as the best vehicle for healthcare reform. Undoubtedly whatever suggestion Trump's administration may have in adjusting healthcare reform will be met with steadfast opposition from the liberals.
Much is the same in the LSM local churches. They are deceitful when they say local churches aren't ministry churches. They are deceitful when they say each local church is locally administered. How local churches proceed with LSM publications as the way to go is no different than obamacare. It just isn't working. Look at the numbers in the localities. When I last visited San Bernardino in 2014, I saw many of the brothers and sisters I knew from years earlier. "The Ministry" has produced little fruit other than churchkids now adults with children of their own. Just like obamacare, the system LSM churches is an inefficient system in dire need of reform. Just like obamacare, those tied to LSM are passionately prideful in believing their system is the best way in spite of what facts may show.
During Obama's administration, he touted transparency, but was anything but. He like the blended brothers proved to be more deceptive than transparent.

Thanks for responding. I left the LCM in 1986 so things might have changed there. But, when I was part of it, the LCM was a authoritarian cult. No president liberal or conservative has been able to function the way the LCM did because of the way the US is structured and functions based on the system of laws beginning with the constitution. So, I don't buy your thesis.

Your "shadow government" is an unproven theory. The LCM had no immigration and health care systems. What one brother said to you can't simply be generalized to the group without evidence. You are making sweeping generalizations based on stereotypes. Are you sure that your own opinions aren't driven more by feelings than facts?

For me the problem with Trump isn't a matter of liberal vs. conservative. It's the problem of having a president who is a pathological liar with delusions of grandeur that impairs his contact with reality. For example, in his last press conference he claimed that he has the highest number of electoral votes since Reagan which is factually way off. Then he claimed there was a terrorist attack in Sweden. But, those are just the latest examples of lies and prevarication that are daily occurrences.

Trump's grandiose view of himself makes him susceptible to manipulation. He's already in violation of the emoluments clause of the US Constitution because of his refusal to put his businesses in a blind trust. He's the first to refuse to release his tax returns since the Nixon debacle. And the list goes on.

There are plenty of conservatives that see that Trump is unfit to be president. Hopefully, the Republican majority in Congress will have the balls to impeach him before he causes a disaster.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

For me the problem with Trump isn't a matter of liberal vs. conservative. It's the problem of having a president who is a pathological liar with delusions of grandeur that impairs his contact with reality. For example, in his last press conference he claimed that he has the highest number of electoral votes since Reagan which is factually way off. Then he claimed there was a terrorist attack in Sweden. But, those are just the latest examples of lies and prevarication that are daily occurrences.

Zeek, now ... finally ... you can understand how I and others feel about Hillary and Bill.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Zeek, now ... finally ... you can understand how I and others feel about Hillary and Bill.

Touche? Coup de grace?!

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Zeek, now ... finally ... you can understand how I and others feel about Hillary and Bill.

Perhaps I do understand. It's not easy when the highest office holder in the land doesn't represent your core values.

Of course, you have no idea how I feel about Hillary and Bill, because you prejudged my position when you classified me as a liberal. In your mind, as you have expressed it here for years, being a liberal entailed a bunch of stereotypical opinions that I must have.

Rigid prejudices preclude the free exchange of ideas and the understanding that follows from that. And, I'm not claiming that I am free from prejudices when I make that observation. We all have them, IMO.

That's why I thought and continue to think that Alt Views is valuable. Here, if we continue communicating, we may be able to enlarge our understanding. The trick is to "listen" and not to get stuck in our prejudices. That's why I continue to participate here. I hope that more people from the Local Churches join us in this process.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

Of course, you have no idea how I feel about Hillary and Bill, because you prejudged my position when you classified me as a liberal. In your mind, as you have expressed it here for years, being a liberal entailed a bunch of stereotypical opinions that I must have.

Rigid prejudices preclude the free exchange of ideas and the understanding that follows from that. And, I'm not claiming that I am free from prejudices when I make that observation. We all have them, IMO.

That's why I thought and continue to think that Alt Views is valuable. Here, if we continue communicating, we may be able to enlarge our understanding. The trick is to "listen" and not to get stuck in our prejudices. That's why I continue to participate here. I hope that more people from the Local Churches join us in this process.

Wait a minute. Have you forgotten all your LC prejudices which you regularly fling my way? I get the double whammy, while you only hear about liberalism. Are you willing to reconsidering your liberal stances?

I was a Kennedy/McGovern democrat/liberal back in my Cleveland days. Then the party left me. They kept moving left, never stopping, and I decided to stay still, considering the childhood values my parents put in me were not so bad after all. Nearly half a century later, my former party is totally unrecognizable. JFK, besides wanting to know who shot him, would be shocked with how the country has gone to, "ask not what I can do for my country, but what will that effin country do for me?"

Perhaps you might reconsider your own positions in light of where you once were.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

Perhaps I do understand. It's not easy when the highest office holder in the land doesn't represent your core values.

Of course, you have no idea how I feel about Hillary and Bill, because you prejudged my position when you classified me as a liberal. In your mind, as you have expressed it here for years, being a liberal entailed a bunch of stereotypical opinions that I must have.

Rigid prejudices preclude the free exchange of ideas and the understanding that follows from that. And, I'm not claiming that I am free from prejudices when I make that observation. We all have them, IMO.

That's why I thought and continue to think that Alt Views is valuable. Here, if we continue communicating, we may be able to enlarge our understanding. The trick is to "listen" and not to get stuck in our prejudices. That's why I continue to participate here. I hope that more people from the Local Churches join us in this process.

And now you know how I must feel when you judged I had a bunch of stereotypical opinions when I said i was a fundamentalist!

Empathy, right here on the internet! Who would have thought it.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

For me the problem with Trump isn't a matter of liberal vs. conservative. It's the problem of having a president who is a pathological liar with delusions of grandeur that impairs his contact with reality. For example, in his last press conference he claimed that he has the highest number of electoral votes since Reagan which is factually way off. Then he claimed there was a terrorist attack in Sweden. But, those are just the latest examples of lies and prevarication that are daily occurrences.

Did you even see the news on what happened in Sweden? It was unbelievable, who could think, Sweden! There was a horse named Biscuit (true story) and he fell into a well! Who would do this? Maybe someone who doesn't know how to ride a horse! Hence we need extreme vetting to make sure we don't get immigrants who don't know how to ride horses in the US.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by zeek

Hopefully, the Republican majority in Congress will have the balls to impeach him before he causes a disaster.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

But they might not just let him run roughshod over everything that gets in the way of his bulldozer. (One can hope.)

I have told die-hard conservatives that the union will survive 4 or 8 years of anyone. But when you are living through it, it is hard to see how sometimes.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by zeek

Hopefully, the Republican majority in Congress will have the balls to impeach him before he causes a disaster.

Right. The pubbies are having a heyday. After Obama they have someone that will sign their bills. And while the clown Trump provides the distractions, they're after everything Obama, and are ending every regulation they can get their hands on ; like a sleight of hand trick. For this reason they'll put up with all of Trump's craziness, things they would never ever have put up with if Obama did it.