Teaching on Calling on the Name of the Lord

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

How do you know that they do? What's your experience? I have many years in traditional denominations, most of which follow some sort of liturgy in which I know there is no opportunity for congregational story telling, prophesying, testimonies or otherwise, and about 10 years in the Recovery.

OK, that's cool, you have experience with a major denomination. How do you know anything about the non-denomination groups? it's OK if you have learned that information from others. Were you saved in the traditional denomination you attended, or were you saved in the Recovery?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by HERn

OK, that's cool, you have experience with a major denomination. How do you know anything about the non-denomination groups? it's OK if you have learned that information from others. Were you saved in the traditional denomination you attended, or were you saved in the Recovery?

I was saved when I was born, like Jesus or John the Baptist, so not in either denomination or the Recovery. In my work I have been closely affiliated with the Seventh Day Adventist churches, they are not non-denominational but close to one. I don't know much about non-denominational groups, other than a few community churches I have attended. I imagine them to be more free to share testimonies based upon the meetings I attended. 90% of "Sunday church goers" in liturgical churches are hopeless at giving testimonies. Most are scared of speaking in general and sit at the back. One or two people speaking and many in silence is the norm in these churches.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I was saved when I was born, like Jesus or John the Baptist,

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

When were you born again?

Nell

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Nell

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

When were you born again?

Nell

That applied to Nicodemus. I don't see it applying to everyone. When were Jesus and John the Baptist "born again"? When was Peter, James or John born again? The bible does not record any of the 12 disciples having a born again experience. Was it when Jesus called them to drop their nets and they started to "follow Christ"? Was it after Peter said "you are the Christ"?, was it when Peter said "go away Lord I am sinful", was it at Pentecost? Who knows.

You know if a baby dies it goes straight to the kingdom of God, to heaven, right? Babies don't need to be born again, only when they reach the "age of accountability" if they are not already believers. I was already a believer by the age of accountability, so I was saved from birth. I doubt it was "in the womb" as Christ or John the Baptist, it could have been during my infant baptism. But it makes no sense to say I was saved at 4 weeks old.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That applied to Nicodemus. I don't see it applying to everyone. When were Jesus and John the Baptist "born again"? When was Peter, James or John born again? The bible does not record any of the 12 disciples having a born again experience. Was it when Jesus called them to drop their nets and they started to "follow Christ"? Was it after Peter said "you are the Christ"?, was it at Pentecost? Who knows.

You know if a baby dies it goes straight to the kingdom of God, to heaven, right? Babies don't need to be born again, only when they reach the "age of accountability" if they are not already believers. I was already a believer by the age of accountability, so I was saved from birth. I doubt it was "in the womb" as Christ or John the Baptist, it could have been during my infant baptism.

No...it was spoken to Nicodemus. It applies to everyone. Anyhow...most assuredly Jesus did not equivocate.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Further, Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It's not about the babies; not about the 12; not about Jesus or John...they're good. It's about the gospel of Jesus Christ and its simplicity. This statement worries me: "I was already a believer by the age of accountability, so I was saved from birth."

Infant baptism is not Scriptural...it's a ritual of men with no spiritual significance.

Nell

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by Nell

No...it was spoken to Nicodemus. It applies to everyone. Anyhow...most assuredly Jesus did not equivocate.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Further, Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It's not about the babies; not about the 12; not about Jesus or John...they're good. It's about the gospel of Jesus Christ and its simplicity. This statement worries me: "I was already a believer by the age of accountability, so I was saved from birth."

Infant baptism is not Scriptural...it's a ritual of men with no spiritual significance.

Nell

Don't let the words "born again" make you think that it must occur after birth. John the Baptist was born again before birth.

To be born again is a work of God not a work of man, so it can happen whenever God chooses to do it:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

Being born again means spiritual birth. It is possible for there to be a very short span of time between the physical birth and the spiritual birth. For example, John the Baptist was "born again" in the womb, as he was filled with the Spirit from birth. Unlike Christ, John was a sinner like you or I, that needed to be "born again" just like Nicodemus did. The thing is, unlike Nicodemus, John the baptist was born again as a baby, not as an adult.

If you think that the born again experience must occur at a certain age in a person's life, what you are doing is overlaying a human concept onto Jesus's words to Nicodemus. Jesus simply said "you must be born again". He did not condition that on a person's age, or condition etc. It occurs whenever the Spirit of God chooses to regenerate a person's inward man. It is up to God not man.

It is possible for a child to be born again before the age of accountability. John the Baptist also shows that to be born again does not require an "age of being able to make decisions". John had no choice in the matter of being filled with the Spirit from birth or not.

I believe infant baptism is not scriptural, nor is it genuine baptism. However, I would not say it has no spiritual significance. Prayers to God are offered, the congregation prays and asks God to do certain things in the child's life. I believe God honours those prayers, particularly if they are offered in a genuine way, and are not just a mere ritual. I see in the life of people who were only infant baptised, that they are genuine followers of Christ just as much as people who were baptised as an adult. This indicates they have been born again.

What some people may not understand, is that for a child infant baptized and raised in a Christian home, it is quite common for them to already be believers by the time they reach the age of accountability and exhibit faith in Christ such as prayer, bible reading and church attendance. For that reason it is unnecessary, even silly, to try and demand that they have a "born again experience", an experience which has already occurred in their heart because of God's work.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't let the words "born again" make you think that it must occur after birth. John the Baptist was born again before birth.

To be born again is a work of God not a work of man, so it can happen whenever God chooses to do it:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

Being born again means spiritual birth. It is possible for there to be a very short span of time between the physical birth and the spiritual birth. For example, John the Baptist was "born again" in the womb, as he was filled with the Spirit from birth. Unlike Christ, John was a sinner like you or I, that needed to be "born again" just like Nicodemus did. The thing is, unlike Nicodemus, John the baptist was born again as a baby, not as an adult.

If you think that the born again experience must occur at a certain age in a person's life, what you are doing is overlaying a human concept onto Jesus's words to Nicodemus. Jesus simply said "you must be born again". He did not condition that on a person's age, or condition etc. It occurs whenever the Spirit of God chooses to regenerate a person's inward man. It is up to God not man.

It is possible for a child to be born again before the age of accountability. John the Baptist also shows that to be born again does not require an "age of being able to make decisions". John had no choice in the matter of being filled with the Spirit from birth or not.

I believe infant baptism is not scriptural, nor is it genuine baptism. However, I would not say it has no spiritual significance. Prayers to God are offered, the congregation prays and asks God to do certain things in the child's life. I believe God honours those prayers, particularly if they are offered in a genuine way, and are not just a mere ritual. I see in the life of people who were only infant baptised, that they are genuine followers of Christ just as much as people who were baptised as an adult. This indicates they have been born again.

I'm thinking at this time that ole Evangelical might need a new name.

Perhaps "EvenJelly."

And, btw, your spellings are not American English, which probably explains why you have displayed such a spiteful attitude towards our country in some of your posts.

[Nell]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't let the words "born again" make you think that it must occur after birth. John the Baptist was born again before birth.

To be born again is a work of God not a work of man, so it can happen whenever God chooses to do it:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

Being born again means spiritual birth. It is possible for there to be a very short span of time between the physical birth and the spiritual birth. For example, John the Baptist was "born again" in the womb, as he was filled with the Spirit from birth. Unlike Christ, John was a sinner like you or I, that needed to be "born again" just like Nicodemus did. The thing is, unlike Nicodemus, John the baptist was born again as a baby, not as an adult.

If you think that the born again experience must occur at a certain age in a person's life, what you are doing is overlaying a human concept onto Jesus's words to Nicodemus. Jesus simply said "you must be born again". He did not condition that on a person's age, or condition etc. It occurs whenever the Spirit of God chooses to regenerate a person's inward man. It is up to God not man.

It is possible for a child to be born again before the age of accountability. John the Baptist also shows that to be born again does not require an "age of being able to make decisions". John had no choice in the matter of being filled with the Spirit from birth or not.

I believe infant baptism is not scriptural, nor is it genuine baptism. However, I would not say it has no spiritual significance. Prayers to God are offered, the congregation prays and asks God to do certain things in the child's life. I believe God honours those prayers, particularly if they are offered in a genuine way, and are not just a mere ritual. I see in the life of people who were only infant baptised, that they are genuine followers of Christ just as much as people who were baptised as an adult. This indicates they have been born again.

What some people may not understand, is that for a child infant baptized and raised in a Christian home, it is quite common for them to already be believers by the time they reach the age of accountability and exhibit faith in Christ such as prayer, bible reading and church attendance. For that reason it is unnecessary, even silly, to try and demand that they have a "born again experience", an experience which has already occurred in their heart because of God's work.

So the simple answer to the question "when were you saved" is "I don't know." But that's not unusual. Yet most people who don't know simply testify something like "I don't know when I was saved, but I have the assurance that Jesus is my Savior, that He died for me, and that He lives in my heart." Not you.

As is your way, you attempt to put words in my mouth, you launch into a strawman argument (*which you believe is "part and parcel" of this sort discussion setting), and wildly deflect from the topic. In this case, again, you don't know what you're talking about.

But Ohio is sooooo right. This post explains a lot. You do need a new name. To be "evangelical" you need to be able to share the gospel in a clear and accurate way and actually lead someone to the Lord. There are red flags all over your post.

Nell

Since you admit your fondness for the strawman argument, can we ever trust that you sincerely want to discuss the topics presented on this forum, or are you just another troll...out baiting your traps?

*

Originally Posted by Evangelical

... Straw-man's are part and parcel of this sort of discussion - grow up and get over it. I'm not asking for respect, ...

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Don't let the words "born again" make you think that it must occur after birth. John the Baptist was born again before birth.

To be born again is a work of God not a work of man, so it can happen whenever God chooses to do it:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:13)

Being born again means spiritual birth. It is possible for there to be a very short span of time between the physical birth and the spiritual birth. For example, John the Baptist was "born again" in the womb, as he was filled with the Spirit from birth. Unlike Christ, John was a sinner like you or I, that needed to be "born again" just like Nicodemus did. The thing is, unlike Nicodemus, John the baptist was born again as a baby, not as an adult.

Then why did Jesus say that "he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John?"

Why don't you checkout what Lee said in the footnote? (Mt 11.11; Lk 7.28)

Perhaps you missed the HWFMR review for those verses because you were here trashing Christianity and the US.

Just sayin.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

That applied to Nicodemus. I don't see it applying to everyone. When were Jesus and John the Baptist "born again"? When was Peter, James or John born again? The bible does not record any of the 12 disciples having a born again experience. Was it when Jesus called them to drop their nets and they started to "follow Christ"? Was it after Peter said "you are the Christ"?, was it when Peter said "go away Lord I am sinful", was it at Pentecost? Who knows.

You know if a baby dies it goes straight to the kingdom of God, to heaven, right? Babies don't need to be born again, only when they reach the "age of accountability" if they are not already believers. I was already a believer by the age of accountability, so I was saved from birth. I doubt it was "in the womb" as Christ or John the Baptist, it could have been during my infant baptism. But it makes no sense to say I was saved at 4 weeks old.

Is this some kind of joke?

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I was saved when I was born, like Jesus or John the Baptist,
so not in either denomination or the Recovery. In my work I have been closely affiliated with the Seventh Day Adventist churches, they are not non-denominational but close to one. I don't know much about non-denominational groups, other than a few community churches I have attended. I imagine them to be more free to share testimonies based upon the meetings I attended. 90% of "Sunday church goers" in liturgical churches are hopeless at giving testimonies. Most are scared of speaking in general and sit at the back. One or two people speaking and many in silence is the norm in these churches.

This explains a lot.

I'm thinking at this time that ole Drake might even reconsider his allegiances.

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I was saved when I was born, like Jesus or John the Baptist, so not in either denomination or the Recovery. In my work I have been closely affiliated with the Seventh Day Adventist churches, they are not non-denominational but close to one. I don't know much about non-denominational groups, other than a few community churches I have attended. I imagine them to be more free to share testimonies based upon the meetings I attended. 90% of "Sunday church goers" in liturgical churches are hopeless at giving testimonies. Most are scared of speaking in general and sit at the back. One or two people speaking and many in silence is the norm in these churches.

OK. You are a very interesting person. I need to think through the "saved when I was born" comment. I have never heard that before. Do you have the permission of the blended brothers or elders to participate here, or are you functioning independently?

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by HERn

OK. You are a very interesting person. I need to think through the "saved when I was born" comment. I have never heard that before. Do you have the permission of the blended brothers or elders to participate here, or are you functioning independently?

There are a few testimonies like that floating around on the internet. Maybe I was unsaved at age 2 months or 3 months, I don't know, but I believe babies go to heaven.

I do not have the permission of the blended brothers or elders to participate here and I think you know the reason why.

[Koinonia]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I do not have the permission of the blended brothers or elders to participate here and I think you know the reason why.

What do you think is the reason?

[HERn]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

There are a few testimonies like that floating around on the internet. Maybe I was unsaved at age 2 months or 3 months, I don't know, but I believe babies go to heaven.

I do not have the permission of the blended brothers or elders to participate here and I think you know the reason why.

I don't know the reason why. Is it because commenting here gives legitimacy to the forum? Do the blended brothers or elders know that you participate here? Sometimes I think you may be a provocateur? What do you hope to accomplish by participating here?