Wait, It's A Cult?

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Why weren't you warned about being poisoned before coming here? You are telling me something based on second hand knowledge, something others have told you. You are not speaking from personal experience, and only relaying the experiences of others. You never experienced it yourself in the time you were in the LSM? You said it's deeply embedded in the culture, yet it never happened to you? You said "heard it from multiple people from different localities and different states". How many people? 2? 100? 1000?

Ah I see, that's why I was so confused! Because I WAS personally warned - experiencing this live, in person, by multiple people, from multiple localities. Come on Evangelical, come back to reality bro.... You know its deeply embedded in the culture.

"I was only a part of your denomination for a year and I heard it from multiple people from different localities and different states. Outside of these direct statements of being "poisoned", I heard countless other people share this same message indirectly."

When I said I heard "it", I was referring to people telling me not to read stuff online lest I be poisoned. I've also shared this personal experience on the forum in the past.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Ah I see, that's why I was so confused! Because I WAS personally warned - experiencing this live, in person, by multiple people, from multiple localities. Come on Evangelical, come back to reality bro.... You know its deeply embedded in the culture.

"I was only a part of your denomination for a year and I heard it from multiple people from different localities and different states. Outside of these direct statements of being "poisoned", I heard countless other people share this same message indirectly."

When I said I heard "it", I was referring to people telling me not to read stuff online lest I be poisoned. I've also shared this personal experience on the forum in the past.

Well, I don't know what bible you have but my bible says this:

Romans 16:17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

Titus 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

So we may say that warnings about being "poisoned" , was actually deeply rooted in the culture of the New Testament church.

Some people may think this applies only to their own particular denomination or fellowship of their own choosing. But it doesn't. It is written not to denominations, but to every Christian in a locality, to avoid those who cause divisions. At the time, the only people who would have been causing divisions were those who were looking to divide, and create denominations, according to "I follow Paul, I follow Apollos" (1 Cor 1:12-13). And Paul asks the question in verse 13 "is Christ divided and has your denomination been crucified for you?"

Why would Paul write this to groups within groups within groups within groups in a locality? He is not talking about not having division just in your own family, between husband and wife, but between whole groups of Christians, who we might call denominations today.

In other words if you are in a division /denomination, and think that you are not divisive because you get along with everyone in your denomination happily, think again.

You see, the bible is consistent on these matters.

Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.

Jude 1 : They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

There is a full list of scriptures here:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/division

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Well, I don't know what bible you have but my bible says this:

Romans 16:17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

Titus 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

We in the GLA all watched evil operatives sent out from Anaheim into all the LC's to create divisions. We tried to have nothing to do with them. We should have called the police.

Unfortunately, especially in Mansfeid and Columbus, operatives from DCP were able to file court motions. These LC's had no heart or ability to fight battles in court against these divisive well-funded and well-trained heretics, and eventually gave them what earthly possessions they lusted for.

Tell us again about that church with no name filing lawsuits to steal a name from their brothers. And a meeting hall.

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Well, I don't know what bible you have but my bible says this:

Romans 16:17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

- I've never personally experienced another Christian group that causes more divisions and obstacles than the LSM. I've actually used this verse to describe the local churches - keep away.

Titus 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

- I agree, Amen! So this shall be my last post towards you my friend.

So we may say that warnings about being "poisoned" , was actually deeply rooted in the culture of the New Testament church.

Some people may think this applies only to their own particular denomination or fellowship of their own choosing. Who? Wha... ah never-mind, would be an exercise of futility. But it doesn't. It is written not to denominations, but to every Christian in a locality, to avoid those who cause divisions. At the time, the only people who would have been causing divisions were those who were looking to divide, and create denominations, according to "I follow Paul, I follow Apollos" (1 Cor 1:12-13). And Paul asks the question in verse 13 "is Christ divided and has your denomination been crucified for you?"

Yes! Exactly! In the LSM, from my personal experience - the constant message of "I follow Witness Lee" caused me to turn away from this division

Why would Paul write this to groups within groups within groups within groups in a locality? He is not talking about not having division just in your own family, between husband and wife, but between whole groups of Christians, who we might call denominations today.

In other words if you are in a division /denomination, and think that you are not divisive because you get along with everyone in your denomination happily, think again.

I guess according to you I'm in a division being in a non-denominational church. I guess I was also with divisions while in fellowship with dozens of different churches across 4 different continents - serving the Lord and spreading His good news?

You see, the bible is consistent on these matters.

Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.

Jude 1 : They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

There is a full list of scriptures here:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/division

Brother Evangelical - it may be helpful to take your own advice sometimes. Don't be intimidated

[Drake]

Leastofthese) "Ah I see, that's why I was so confused! Because I WAS personally warned - experiencing this live, in person, by multiple people, from multiple localities..... You know its deeply embedded in the culture. "

As it is here.

Drake

[leastofthese]

Originally Posted by Drake

Leastofthese) "Ah I see, that's why I was so confused! Because I WAS personally warned - experiencing this live, in person, by multiple people, from multiple localities..... You know its deeply embedded in the culture. "

As it is here.

Drake

Being intimidated not to ask questions, being told directly to fall in line with the crowd, warned not to seek any insight from outside of the forum? Wait; do I need to check with Untohim what is ok to read, watch, listen to???

I must have missed the memo.

Drake which locality do you meet with?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by leastofthese

Being intimidated not to ask questions, being told directly to fall in line with the crowd, warned not to seek any insight from outside of the forum? Wait; do I need to check with Untohim what is ok to read, watch, listen to???

I must have missed the memo.

Drake which locality do you meet with?

The "memo" you missed was the thread you started called "Brothers, what shall we do?"

There you checked with the brothers:

"In regards to LSM:

Should we warn others that have recently touched the church?
Should we continue to pray for deliverance for friends in the church?
Do you consider LSM and LC to be standing on solid ground?
Should we command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies?
Should we step in when we see believers led astray by hypocrisy and conduct that is not in step with the truth of the gospel?

Where Untohim provided you with the answers:

"leastofthese has posed some very relevant questions. My answers, in short, are Yes, Yes, No, Yes and a BIG YES! "

Therefore, warning others is deeply embedded in the culture of this forum. In fact, it is its very mission. In practice, it is mostly self affirmation, a support group, between a dozen or so regulars. Therefore, why shouldn't those in the local churches be warned about online forums like this one? They would be remiss not to. The threads have new titles but it is the same old song. Grasping for something new to talk about even ol' Hank gets kicked to the curb. The intolerance is both sad and amusing but no light.

Yet, those in the local churches are not obsessed about warning others about online forums like this online forum is about them. I recall hearing something maybe thrice in the last few decades and I have lived in several localities. Though there is a concerted effort to poison others against the local churches it has very little effect except now and then mostly a newbie will get picked off.

Net net is this. No one in this forum has the ground to condemn the local churches for warning others about those who would poison them.. Warning others is the deeply embedded culture of this forum.

Drake

[leastofthese]

Drake,

You are a hoot. Come back to reality my brother, don't be intimidated.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Drake

Therefore, warning others is deeply embedded in the culture of this forum. In fact, it is its very mission. In practice, it is mostly self affirmation, a support group, between a dozen or so regulars.

Would you say that this is "less than the least" of all forums?

Originally Posted by Drake

Therefore, why shouldn't those in the local churches be warned about online forums like this one?

I'm sorry you lost me with that "therefore", I guess I just can't keep up. Point 1 -- less than the least of all forums, just a support group with 12 offscouring of the LRC.

therefore

2 -- Beware?

I don't get the logic in needing a warning about some insignificant support group?

Originally Posted by Drake

They would be remiss not to. The threads have new titles but it is the same old song. Grasping for something new to talk about even ol' Hank gets kicked to the curb. The intolerance is both sad and amusing but no light.

Intolerance is amusing?

Originally Posted by Drake

Yet, those in the local churches are not obsessed about warning others about online forums like this online forum is about them. I recall hearing something maybe thrice in the last few decades and I have lived in several localities. Though there is a concerted effort to poison others against the local churches it has very little effect except now and then mostly a newbie will get picked off.

Net net is this. No one in this forum has the ground to condemn the local churches for warning others about those who would poison them.. Warning others is the deeply embedded culture of this forum.

Drake

Thanks for the conclusion, that was clear. Also I agree that there should be no condemnation to anyone for teaching the verses quoted by Evangelical concerning avoiding those who cause division.

That is the irony of religion, everyone claims to be fighting on the side of God. It is a vicious battle for the moral high ground.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Therefore, warning others is deeply embedded in the culture of this forum. In fact, it is its very mission. In practice, it is mostly self affirmation, a support group, between a dozen or so regulars. Therefore, why shouldn't those in the local churches be warned about online forums like this one? They would be remiss not to. The threads have new titles but it is the same old song. Grasping for something new to talk about even ol' Hank gets kicked to the curb. The intolerance is both sad and amusing but no light.

Yet, those in the local churches are not obsessed about warning others about online forums like this online forum is about them. I recall hearing something maybe thrice in the last few decades and I have lived in several localities. Though there is a concerted effort to poison others against the local churches it has very little effect except now and then mostly a newbie will get picked off.

Net net is this. No one in this forum has the ground to condemn the local churches for warning others about those who would poison them.. Warning others is the deeply embedded culture of this forum.

Drake

During my many years in the LC's, I often heard of ones being poisoned, and then suddenly disappearing. I could never understand how that could happen. How could one be healthy in the faith, loving the Lord Jesus, actively serving the church, loving all the brothers and sisters, etc. and then get "poisoned," almost overnight? It was always a mystery to me, until it also happened to me. What the LC leaders (primarily WL) regularly called "poison" was not poison at all. It was just the Light of heaven shining in a dark place uncovering the truths of past events long covered in lies, half-truths, and slanders.

Let me use an example somewhat in the news today ...

The Case of Greta Van Susteren being "Poisoned"

For those who are not familiar, Greta was a rising Fox News Star with her own evening show at 7 pm, right before the Bill O'Reilly Factor. She loved working at FNC under the tutelage of Roger Ailes, a conservative media icon. She viewed Fox News as the only true news outlet, far superior to her "denominational" and biased cable news source competitors. Roger Ailes was her MOTA, Mediaman of the Age.

When Gretchen Carlson burst the bubble at Fox last year, publicly alleging that Roger Ailes made unwanted advances towards her, the new outlet was in an uproar. She became an instant "opposer." Gretchen was basically branded a "rebellious leper who should be quarantined," speaking in LC terms. How could she do such a thing? Nearly all the Fox on-air celebrities lined up behind their boss Roger, singing the praises of his brilliant professionalism, staunchly claiming he would never do such a thing!

Then Greta V.S. herself opened her show adamantly defending her Fox boss. Roger Ailes had never done anything to her, so she spoke with a bold conscience that Ailes was innocent of these malicious charges. How could anyone blame him of such impropriety. Behind the scenes, to their credit, the Murdoch owners decided to provide a means for all employees to come forward in anonymity. One by one the pretty Fox commentators told their stories. The momentum of testimonies grew. The gig was up. Ailes had to go. O'Reily was also mentioned.

Thus Greta got "poisoned." Overnight she learned that she had put her own reputation on the line and defended a guilty abuser. Her Fox News bubble had burst. She suddenly learned the truth. Years of lies were suddenly uncovered. It was too much for her conscience to handle. She had to leave. That night she suddenly resigned, never to work at Fox again.

Such is the experience over many years of so many dedicated members in the LC's. Their "holy" leadership one day got exposed. All the stories of past "storms" in the Recovery were not as we were always told. There was definitely more to the story swept under the huge "rug" in Anaheim. To his credit, Roger Ailes seemed to be more professional than one Philip Lee who ran LSM. But like the many decent ones in the LC's with a conscience like Greta, learning the real stories of past LSM corruption was too much to handle. They too got poisoned. Overnight they changed. They left never to return.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Well, I don't know what bible you have but my bible says this:

Romans 16:17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

To cause a division is equivalent to a "damnable heresy" referred to by the Apostle Peter. To have a meeting with Christians in fellowship by necessity will not include every Christian on this planet, so that is not to "cause a division". But according to Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. So then a damnable heresy, to cause a division in the body of Christ, this is closely tied to "denying the Lord who bought you". When you say that WN is the "Minister of the Age" you are denying Jesus Christ who is the Minister of the Age. When you say that the boundary of a worldly city is "the ground of the church" you are denying the Lord who bought us with His blood. His sacrifice, His blood is the ground we stand on.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Titus 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

Everyone on this forum should follow this advice. This forum and this thread in particular are warnings to all concerning these divisive persons. I personally have warned them twice and now no longer have anything to do with them.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

So we may say that warnings about being "poisoned" , was actually deeply rooted in the culture of the New Testament church.

Some people may think this applies only to their own particular denomination or fellowship of their own choosing. But it doesn't. It is written not to denominations, but to every Christian in a locality, to avoid those who cause divisions. At the time, the only people who would have been causing divisions were those who were looking to divide, and create denominations, according to "I follow Paul, I follow Apollos" (1 Cor 1:12-13). And Paul asks the question in verse 13 "is Christ divided and has your denomination been crucified for you?"

Why would Paul write this to groups within groups within groups within groups in a locality? He is not talking about not having division just in your own family, between husband and wife, but between whole groups of Christians, who we might call denominations today.

In other words if you are in a division /denomination, and think that you are not divisive because you get along with everyone in your denomination happily, think again.

You see, the bible is consistent on these matters.

Yes, I agree. Saying that you follow WN or WL is not consistent with the NT. Saying that certain people are "ministers of the Age" rather than Jesus Christ is not consistent with the NT. Saying that there is some other ground to the church other than the sacrifice made by Jesus on the Cross is not consistent with the NT.

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls.

Jude 1 : They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.” It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

There is a full list of scriptures here:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/division

What a great example. WN's empire was divided against itself when he came from Taiwan to the US. Since then it has become divided against itself again with the split from Titus Chu and from South America and from Germany and from churches in Africa.

Also, great example about the "scoffers and their ungodly passions". Surely you refer to PL, TL, etc. Yes, I agree, it is these people who cause divisions, they were worldly people, devoid of the Spirit. They have been warned and now according to the NT we have nothing to do with them.