afazio - Spiritual Authority

[aron]

Originally Posted by Angelica

I do see some Chinese culture in all of Nee's work. However, I really appreciate his earlier ministry.

That WN & WN expressed Chinese culture is understandable, and not wrong of itself. What's wrong is that this culture - shared history and agreed-upon assumptions and expectations based on that history - imposed itself as a universal, one-size-fits-all "Christ". We'd get crushed by a "storm" or "rebellion", but no one could step back and objectively examine the shared values and expectations that led to the blow-up. At the core, there was fallen human culture, uncritically received.

Originally Posted by Angelica

What Mahoney said was that 1. God, 2. Christ, 3.the Holy Spirit and 4. the Word of God were all levels of authority that had to be obeyed absolutely.

Christ, on earth, obeyed the Father absolutely. As such, nothing could stop him - "You just speak the word, and my servant will be healed". Matt 8:8

Don't be lulled by those who merely teach. This is counterfeit authority. How many thousands have been pinioned to chairs, meeting after meeting, book after conference after message. The whole world is out there, waiting for the power, authority and kingdom of our Lord and His Christ. ~Rev 11:15

But we got meetings and teachings. Thank God for the day that I walked out that door. . .it took some years, but eventually my mind was restored.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by aron

Thank God for the day that I walked out that door. . ..

Brother Aron,

You walked out that door...

.... but you never left.

Drake

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Brother Aron,

You walked out that door...

.... but you never left.

Drake

May I interlope? I liken it to a palm tree that gets bent by a hurricane, and continues to grow thereafter as a bent palm tree. I love those trees.

So you are right bro Drake, we can get out of the LC, but it's not easy to get the LC out of us.

Hopefully we can get free enough to think for our self. We may continue bent, but at least be a self critical thinking tree.

Oil and water. That is what the LC, and self thinking, are to each other ... as I remember it.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by awareness

May I interlope?...

....So you are right bro Drake, we can get out of the LC, but it's not easy to get the LC out of us.

Hopefully we can get free enough to think for our self....

Of course you may interlope..... always.

Whether one walked out like brother aron, or was escorted out like you brother Harold , neither of you ever left. You are physically disconnected yet emotionally and mentally bound to living in the past.... and reliving it .. and have never moved on. It is my observation that in such a state, it is difficult if not impossible to think for yourself..... and that is why the forum has become a continuous cycle of reruns like having a broadcast service that only plays reruns of the Brady Bunch. You can predict the response to any situation because you've watched the episode many times. There is no freedom or critical thinking in such a state. Even the response to this post is predictable, just watch and see.

Something Max's daughter said in another post awhile back struck me along this same train of thought..... she stated that Max himself was surprised that people were still talking about and reliving the events surrounding him and that he had moved on. It is not a healthy condition to be stuck in the past and there is no freedom or freedom of thought in it.

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

the forum has become a continuous cycle of reruns like having a broadcast service that only plays reruns of the Brady Bunch. You can predict the response to any situation because you've watched the episode many times. There is no freedom or critical thinking in such a state. Even the response to this post is predictable, just watch and see..

I'm happy to be accommodating, and predictable: "Thank God for the day I left the Local Church!!!"

I probably thank God for getting out of there only slightly less often and fervently than I declare, "Jesus is the Lord!" I'm so thankful... there's an evil, controlling spirit at work there. How else to explain the multiple sins committed by Lee family members, yet Witness Lee sailed on, even while thousands of his followers were ejected from his flock? Jesus said to shout it from the house-tops; he didn't say how many times, so we'll just keep a-shouting.

[countmeworthy]

Originally Posted by Drake

........... the forum has become a continuous cycle of reruns like having a broadcast service that only plays reruns of the Brady Bunch. You can predict the response to any situation because you've watched the episode many times. There is no freedom or critical thinking in such a state. Even the response to this post is predictable, just watch and see.....

Drake

I may not read all the threads or go through every post on the threads but Drake, this forum is not a continuous cycle of reruns. This forum is designed to help people who were trapped and have moved on. Their experiences in the the LSM both good, bad and ugly have been very beneficial to countless of people.

Many people who have been trapped in the cultish organization of the LSM have received help and answers to flee the Jezebel spirit controlling the saints in the LSM FROM THIS FORUM!

Those from the LSM who have frequented this forum and heard/felt the pain..oh WAIT.. I don't think the LSM has the ability to feel the pain of people who have been mistreated, abused, hurt, confused by the LSM and Lee's teachings. In any case, I have never seen an LSM defender post a compassionate, thoughtful statement expressing their heartfelt sorrow for what they experienced in the LSM. SHAME ON LEE AND THE LSM..and YOU for stating "and have never moved on. It is my observation that in such a state, it is difficult if not impossible to think for yourself....."

From Philippians 3:13-14
this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by countmeworthy

This forum is designed to help people who were trapped and have moved on. Their experiences in the the LSM both good, bad and ugly have been very beneficial to countless of people.

CMW,

An internet chat forum by design cannot help people navigate out of an experience. That is an artifact of the nature of chat forums. Certainly it can help to know you are not alone through empathy but then something more structured is needed for someone to process out of an experience. I doubt “countless” have been helped as you claim even in an empathetic way. To claim countless are would be an argument from silence.

Yet some, though having “left” the local churches and the ministry that builds them, apparently have never left mentally or emotionally. And the dialogue they have with others who share their experience has not enabled them to move on. So, the threads become “Brady Bunch reruns”, ultimately arriving at the same half dozen blaming complaints (PL, MOTA, Daystar, One Publication, Blended Brothers, etc.) for just about any topic. That appears as a classic description of group think not unlike what we observe in politics as the cause of every ill (e.g. Russians did it).

Drake

[Trapped]

Originally Posted by Drake

An internet chat forum by design cannot help people navigate out of an experience. That is an artifact of the nature of chat forums. Certainly it can help to know you are not alone through empathy but then something more structured is needed for someone to process out of an experience. I doubt “countless” have been helped as you claim even in an empathetic way. To claim countless are would be an argument from silence.

Wrong. This forum has helped me navigate out of an experience......more than anyone else has. (P.S. you are really knocking a place that you sure do frequent a lot!) I'm so glad there are people who care enough to stick around here long enough for people like me to finally float in. In fact, it's design is one of the very things that helps so much:

1. ability to pose questions to a wide range of people for variety and depth of response
2. PM for one-on-one specific care
3. you can leave it the second you need or want to
4. anonymity is a protection, if needed
5. anonymity also allows you to ask embarrassing or difficult questions you otherwise may not feel able to ask to someone's face
6. etc. but you get the point

Can you count the number who have been helped? If not, then, by the very nature of a public internet forum where any and many can read, it is "countless".

Originally Posted by Drake

Yet some, though having “left” the local churches and the ministry that builds them, apparently have never left mentally or emotionally. And the dialogue they have with others who share their experience has not enabled them to move on. So, the threads become “Brady Bunch reruns”, ultimately arriving at the same half dozen blaming complaints (PL, MOTA, Daystar, One Publication, Blended Brothers, etc.) for just about any topic. That appears as a classic description of group think not unlike what we observe in politics as the cause of every ill (e.g. Russians did it).

Drake

I can't speak to PL or Daystar, but the MOTA, One Pub, and blended brothers are issues that affect and restrict the saints in the local churches TO THIS VERY SECOND. There is good reason for concern to exist about them since they are present realities. There is light outside the local churches and this light is being systematically demonized and kept away from many who are trapped in the LC system but fear for their literal life or safety if they leave ("Did you hear? So-and-so person who left the church a couple years ago died from a head on collision last week" [knowing look and head shake that indicates both parties agree that if that person hadn't left the church to meet with another Christian church then they would still be alive)].

Drake, what do you think about the quotes I posted from One Pub and afaithfulword.org?

Thanks,

Trapped

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by Drake

Of course you may interlope..... always.

Whether one walked out like brother aron, or was escorted out like you brother Harold , neither of you ever left. You are physically disconnected yet emotionally and mentally bound to living in the past.... and reliving it .. and have never moved on.

The nice thing about "living in the past" according to Drake, is that one can learn from mistakes, repent when necessary, and minister to others from that learning experience.

The bad thing about "living in the present" according to Drake, is that one can hide from past failures, never has to repent, and only has Lee's stale doctrines to minister to others.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Of course you may interlope..... always.

Whether one walked out like brother aron, or was escorted out like you brother Harold , neither of you ever left. You are physically disconnected yet emotionally and mentally bound to living in the past.... and reliving it .. and have never moved on. It is my observation that in such a state, it is difficult if not impossible to think for yourself..... and that is why the forum has become a continuous cycle of reruns like having a broadcast service that only plays reruns of the Brady Bunch. You can predict the response to any situation because you've watched the episode many times. There is no freedom or critical thinking in such a state. Even the response to this post is predictable, just watch and see.

Something Max's daughter said in another post awhile back struck me along this same train of thought..... she stated that Max himself was surprised that people were still talking about and reliving the events surrounding him and that he had moved on. It is not a healthy condition to be stuck in the past and there is no freedom or freedom of thought in it.

Drake

I get what you are saying, but no need to get snarky about it. I too have seen the continuous cycling, that looks like reruns.

I've noticed the cycle when new ones come on the forum, and they are going thru similar cycles as others that have left the LC have gone thru, only just beginning.

Brother Drake, as long as people keep leaving the LC, that cycle will keep happening. Cuz people will keep leaving. And they are helped by repeating it out here.

People that leave aren't stuck. I've seen lots leave, and they go thru changes, and move on. Some don't want to talk about it. Like my friend that came in with me, and became an elder. He's moved on. He's now an American Indian shaman. And he don't look back. He's moved on.

Some do get stuck, and it's sad. I've known those that couldn't handle the resulting inner conflicts, that turn to alcohol to deal with it, and become alcoholics. That one breaks my heart. I spent decades trying to help a brother, having that problem. His wife has moved on, and she too don't like to talk about it. It screwed up their daughter.

True, I'm on the board, and I surely look stuck. My rerun is always : The local church is a cult. In fact, you can easily predict what I'm going to say ... today, tomorrow, next week, next year, next decade.

And I know it's annoying. But somebody has got to warn others. People that are in cults can't see they are in a cult. There's got to be a way to open their eyes. Maybe not, but we can't stop trying. There's precious people in there, and precious ones that might get caught up in it.

Please don't hold it against us. We're just caring, while trying to get thru it too, helping each other, and hopefully others ... that seem to be helped by this forum.

But thanks for pointing out our repetition. That just means more people have left, and are repeating what we went thru.

So gird up your lions brother, it ain't gonna stop.

Thanks for letting me interlope. You're a peach.

[Drake]

Brother awareness,

I appreciate the sincerity in your response.

Yet, the explanation does not align with the arc of discourse here for the reruns are not just when new ones stop in. Rather, a handful of posters reinforce a set of mantras for just about any topic.

Drake

[aron]

Originally Posted by Drake

Brother awareness,

I appreciate the sincerity in your response.

Yet, the explanation does not align with the arc of discourse here for the reruns are not just when new ones stop in. Rather, a handful of posters reinforce a set of mantras for just about any topic.

Drake

One reason I keep repeating questions is that I'm waiting for someone to come up with an answer. Avoid the question, and I suspect I'm on to something and keep repeating it.

For example, Watchman Nee based his work on some 3,000 Christian 'classics'. How come he got to do that, and we're supposed to read "One Publication Only"? He got to pick and choose among viewpoints, but once he had, no one else got to?

And, if there's One Ministry Per Age, where did the 3,000 books come from? How many different authors did he have there?

These are relevant questions. Ignore them, and we'll keep asking them. Same with Daystar and Timothy Lee, with Philip Lee aka "The Office". Ignore, and we'll remind.

And if it has helped us to get clear, perhaps it will help others as well. What sort of animal they're dealing with, here; what sort of spirit is behind the facade. Maybe it isn't their fault, that they "Just couldn't make it" in the LC; maybe, just maybe, it had something to do with the environment that promised transformation but couldn't deliver.

Maybe. Worth thinking about.

I must have asked this question about 10 times: How come Watchman Nee got to pick from disparate sources, and nobody else does?

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Drake

Brother awareness,

I appreciate the sincerity in your response.

Yet, the explanation does not align with the arc of discourse here for the reruns are not just when new ones stop in. Rather, a handful of posters reinforce a set of mantras for just about any topic.

Drake

Thanks for your reply bro Drake. Our stories don't change brother. Sorry if I - we - repeat them. I'm sure you repeat your stories too. But I won't hold it against you.

More than that, I'm sorry you get piled on. But you're the tack that sticks up out here. You prolly expect the hammer.

[UntoHim]

Drake I'm so glad that you have decided what is, and what is not, forgivable. I can now rest in peace tonight!

Of course I dramatized the real situation, as I'm apt to do. I'm just that kind of guy. But, as you are apt to do, you totally and predictably avoided and evaded the one major point that I made in my "forgivable unguarded moment" - That the One Publication in The Lord's Recovery clearly and strongly states that Witness Lee is the only person who spoke as God's oracle while he was on earth. If anything is "blaspheming the Holy Spirit" then it is this unbiblical, cultic declaration that binds an entire Christian group to the words of a fallible, fallen man, who the facts of history have shown that he was not who he represented himself to be, and whose movement that he brought to America is not what he represented it to be.

Call em as I see my man. Truth hurts. You know, all that kind of stuff.
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