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Old 06-29-2015, 11:35 AM   #1
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Default Re: There's No Hierarchy in the Lord's Recovery!

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The majority of LC young adults who actively meet are being sucked in to the FTTA. I'm inclined to believe that this is mostly happening through coercion. With some of those I know, this was indeed the case. I think those like me who chose not to go ended up feeling second tier. Most either dropped out of the LC completely or withdrew gradually. I find it really sad what the LC has become. It's not that there is an absence of young adults, if you go to certain LC's you might see a lot of young adults, but the reality of it is they are mostly FTTA graduates who know how to "play church". At least in the old days, the LC atmosphere was something that could be created without sending people off to Anaheim for two years.
In this day and age, with many companies outsourcing work to third world nations, it doesn't a college graduate any good attending FTTA two years and them looking for work.
If I was a recent college graduate in the local churches, I wouldn't consider FTTA unless there's guarantee of full time support upon FTTA graduation.
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Old 06-29-2015, 11:54 AM   #2
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In the fractured relationship between Mario Sandoval and Samuel Liu, the political nature of LSM showed it's true nature.

They knew he was wrong, but they did not know how to deal with him, how to stop him. They told us to please cover the situation, not to tell anybody and that the co-workers were going to take care of Samuel Liu."

That Monday I stood up and said to them, “brothers, how can I share about the oneness? I have been meeting with all of you for about a year and a half and here, pointing my hand to Samuel Liu, he would not speak to me. I asked Samuel in front of everybody, “Is not that right, bro. Samuel, that you don’t talk to me? Then I (Mario) said to Samuel, you brother Samuel say that you are one of the co-workers and yet you cannot talk to me? Samuel replied, “everything is in the hands of the blended co-workers.”

I (Mario) replied, to bro. Samuel what does this have to do with the blended co-workers? This is something between you and me. After this the behavior of Samuel was unbelievable, He cross his arms, put his head down, close his eyes, even foam came out of his mouth and said, ‘Like I said before, everything is in the hands of the blended co-workers’.

James Lee said, we got the letter and we will take care of it. I waited and waited and nobody responded to me, to my May 18, 2005 letter sent over two years before. The brothers in Ontario saw how bad the situation was getting, so they called JL, and asked him if they could meet with him. Tom Serratti, Benjamin Liu, Damaso Flores, Samuel Liu and I from Ontario met with James Lee. Samuel Liu was forced by his flesh brother Benjamin Liu to come to this meeting. James Lee said; “I am only going to listen to you, since I can’t do anything”.

Now, James Lee is a blended co-worker and he can't do anything? Has the partial nature of being a LSM co-worker reduced a brother to paralysis?

I (Mario) said, this meeting is for brother Samuel Liu and I to be reconciled. Samuel Liu started doing the same thing, he said, “everything is in the hands of the blended co-workers”, cross his arms, bow down his head, close his eyes, and foam came out of his mouth. The meeting was over and nothing was done. His brother, Benjamin Liu, came to me and said, Mario this time we couldn’t do anything, maybe next time."

After calling and calling Benjamin Liu for at least one month for us to meet again with James Lee, we were able to meet see if at this time SL would reconcile with me. We had the second meeting but sad to say the same thing happened. At the end of the meeting, SL said the same thing, “everything is in the hands of the blended co-workers”. SL would not talk to me and did not want to be reconciled with me."

Why did Samuel Liu keep saying everything is in the hands of the blended co-workers?
Is it because he knew they have no backbone to do anything?
Or is it because Samuel knew he didn't have to do anything and by saying " everything is in the hands of the blended co-workers" was his subtle challenge to the blended co-workers to just try to do something about it.
As a result it was easier for James Lee and fellow blended co-workers to have Mario put out than it was to undertake any discipline towards Samuel.
In my eyes the blended co-workers show their political nature just like a Pontius Pilate.
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Old 06-29-2015, 12:16 PM   #3
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Why did Samuel Liu keep saying everything is in the hands of the blended co-workers?
Because the Blendeds had become his "god."
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Old 06-29-2015, 12:13 PM   #4
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In this day and age, with many companies outsourcing work to third world nations, it doesn't a college graduate any good attending FTTA two years and them looking for work.
If I was a recent college graduate in the local churches, I wouldn't consider FTTA unless there's guarantee of full time support upon FTTA graduation.
Titus Chu in Cleveland often had regional long-term events for aspiring saints. He could never call them "T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G-S" since only Witness Lee himself was qualified to "T-R-A-I-N" us, so he called them a "10 Month Labor."

Lucky for me Cleveland never had inspections for my underwear drawer, like they had at the FTTTaipei.

In order to expedite the transition back into civilian life, the "Labor" would not necessarily follow univ. graduation, but could be based on the participants' own schedule, facilitating necessary lifestyle adjustments both before and after the "Labor." This was a definite improvement to LSM's arrangement, which FTTA was never willing to accept. Needless to say, for numerous reasons including this one, many FTTA trainees had much difficulty assimilating back to the normal church life in their localities. LSM always blamed the local elders for this, especially in the GLA, since there could never be a problem with "Brother Lee's Training."
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Old 06-29-2015, 01:48 PM   #5
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In order to expedite the transition back into civilian life, the "Labor" would not necessarily follow univ. graduation, but could be based on the participants' own schedule, facilitating necessary lifestyle adjustments both before and after the "Labor." This was a definite improvement to LSM's arrangement, which FTTA was never willing to accept. Needless to say, for numerous reasons including this one, many FTTA trainees had much difficulty assimilating back to the normal church life in their localities. LSM always blamed the local elders for this, especially in the GLA, since there could never be a problem with "Brother Lee's Training."
LSM will accept nothing less than absolute commitment (and that is what they value). That's probably the big difference between Titus Chu's "labors" and the FTTA. I don't think it was really about which one was better, it was about the fact that FTTA attendance necessitates that trainees drop everything to attend. If you can get someone to drop everything for two years, that is indicative of a long term commitment to the system. Even if disillusionment sets in somewhere down the road, there will be some who are so deep in the system that there aren't many paths out.

When members are wholly committed to a system such as the LC, anything goes. They can be told where to move, whether to work or serve. They will turn a blind eye to abusive leaders. It is something that really gives the LC a lot of power. Without members who serve as "enablers" for LC leaders, the LC would probably just be a quirky system, becoming rapidly irrelevant. The whole situation of Samuel Liu in Ontario is something that would never be allowed to take place in most churches, and it is just an example of some of the factors at play behind the scenes that allow for that kind of abusive behavior.

No one in their right mind should accept that kind of behavior from a church leader, or any kind of leader period. Nevertheless, those in the LC were accepting of it. Why? Members are conditioned to not speak up. More importantly, members are committed. Speaking up has consequences. If someone has years of their life invested in the LC, the possibility of being label as "negative" doesn't look too appealing, even if it means tolerating unseemly behavior.
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Old 06-29-2015, 06:12 PM   #6
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Speaking up has consequences. If someone has years of their life invested in the LC, the possibility of being label as "negative" doesn't look too appealing, even if it means tolerating unseemly behavior.
For a brother or sister to be negative, it doesn't happen over night. It's not as if they set their mind to be negative. The label is a result of reacting to abuse. How many times is someone going to be bullied, before they react?

Here's my historical analogy for the day, when British colonists began arriving in North America in the 17th century, there was no indication of the colonists becoming "negative" towards the British crown. Rather there was roughly 140-150 years of the colonists being "positive" before the colonists began "reacting" against the British government for their abuses of the colonies.
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Old 06-30-2015, 05:59 PM   #7
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For a brother or sister to be negative, it doesn't happen over night. It's not as if they set their mind to be negative. The label is a result of reacting to abuse. How many times is someone going to be bullied, before they react?
It has always surprised me that there haven't been more people within the LC who have reacted to the various abuses that take place. My experience has been that the abuses aren't too hard to find. Everyone has their reasons for keeping quiet, and one thing is for certain, LC leaders operate on the assumption that everyone is going to remain silent. When some doesn't, it's a big deal.

The fact of the matter is, as long as there are abusive situations, there will be those who feel pushed to become "negative" towards the LC. As much as leaders would like to label negativity as an "attack of the enemy", it's simply a reaction to situations that should have been resolved. A case and point is what happened with Samuel Liu. Had other leaders stood up to him and removed him from a leadership role, this situation would probably have never been brought up on the internet. It was a problem created by inaction, and allowing abuses to continue in spite of all logic and reason.
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:10 PM   #8
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It was a problem created by inaction, and allowing abuses to continue in spite of all logic and reason.
The inaction in Ontario, whether due to James Lee, Walter Ortiz, or Tom Serrati in regard to Samuel Liu, a mountain was created out of a molehill.
Trace back in local church history and you can be certain every turmoil was a result of inaction by brothers.
Instead of being part of the solution, they were part of the problem.
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Old 03-28-2016, 07:11 PM   #9
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According to an LC 'tabloid' site (churchnews.info), there is a church in Eastvale (a bit south of Ontario, CA where Samuel Liu is), and this church has recently 'recovered' the practice of "the use of a smartphone as a microphone and bluetooth speaker as a megaphone." I kid you not. I can see Samuel Liu in some of the photos at the link posted below (btw I wonder if he plays any part in the churchnews.info site???) http://churchnews.info/blog/2016/03/...4%9F%E6%8B%85/

What interests me the most is to think that certain 'regional' coworkers (like Samuel Liu), are allowed to run wild and are purposely promoting themselves. Why is this allowed to happen in the realm of the LC? Because the alternative, such as to address what Indiana has written has more severe implications for the blendeds. For now, it's easier for them to let Samuel do what he wants. You can tell by reading the link that the churches associated with him might come across as a bit peculiar (no surprise there).
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