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[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by OBW

Because your question had nothing to do with the question I asked you that got your response. ..In a much earlier post I ask you "where do you get this stuff" to which you replied that you did say where and then provide two homeless verses along with some comment about what Paul was talking about but never provided any basis for tying the verses (and their missing contexts) to the fantasy about an impending industrial age.

OK -- simple logical progression.

1. I believe that God is omniscient. Standard belief for most fundamental Christians though I suppose it is up for interpretation exactly what that means to each individual.

2. I also feel, based on the evidence I have seen, that pollution from the industrial revolution is going to result in catastrophic climate change. By that I mean millions of climate refugees (a process I believe has already begun), spread of tropical diseases like Zika and Dengue (a process I believe has already begun), much more energetic weather resulting in more storms, droughts, etc (a process I believe has already begun) and finally just like a sinking sail ship we will have a negative feedback loop of methane hydrates bubbling up into the atmosphere (a process that has started with a vengeance).

So then, it is a simple question -- What should we do and when should we have done it? If the Titanic hits an iceberg and sinks it is a reasonable question that will be asked at some point, when did they make a mistake and what was it. Perhaps there were a comedy of errors, perhaps it was one error.

It seemed clear to me, after eliminating various possibilities, that the error was made prior to Jesus coming because the prophecies indicated catastrophic climate change was already where we were headed. I realize that it is hard for anyone to wrap their head around climate change due to the industrial revolution being inevitable 1800 years prior to the industrial revolution, but if this post were 200 pages I think I could make a strong case that this is not a crazy idea. The damage from fossil fuel is not simply from burning it, but from the greed, and corruption that results from "he who has the gold makes the rules". The world and its system was already condemned at that point.

I realized while reading the OT that the boundaries of the land given to the children of Israel was not Israel as we know it. He gave them two boundaries -- Tigris Euphrates river and the Mediterranean. That means He gave them the entire Middle East. That is really a very good land if you know about the oil, and is nothing but a wasteland if you don't. I also knew that oil was first discovered in the Middle East based on some reading about "pitch" in the OT (a tar pit that has bubbled up to the surface).

So this goes back to the initial question -- if God is omniscient did He know how much oil was in the Middle East (yes) and is this what He was referring to when He said it was a very good land? Hind sight is 20/20, perhaps our sight today is not as good as God's was back then, but if you today, knowing what you know, said that "The Middle East is a very rich land" would anyone not be including the oil in that equation?

I also knew that every Empire went through Israel -- Roman, Greek, Medo Persian, Babylonian, etc. If Israel had been much, much stronger than they were prior to the Babylonian empire then it would have essentially meant world peace and prosperity thousands of years earlier.

Therefore the key was this 700 year period from Solomon to the Babylonian invasion. With that in mind read Psalm 81.

So then, my question was in what way did we not listen to God? What did we not do that led to us not being blessed? It is quite obvious that Solomon disobeyed God when he went to Lebanon for Cedars and Egypt for horses. But that seemed wise, what was the point of that law in the first place? Every single successful nation has bought into the concept of "world trade", why forbid it?

But when you look at the factors that resulted in the industrial revolution a self imposed embargo is a key factor. A country had to supply their needs with the resources they had, this resulted in them coming up with a better, more efficient way to produce the goods.

Read the archaelogical reports on Solomon's mine, he had a major issue in transporting the ore. I think it is a certainty that he would have come up with something similar to the ancient train found in Greece. His mining operation was already on an industrial scale but he also had a problem housing his workers. Egypt had already discovered the use of lime and gypsum in making mortar, so it is not unreasonable that Solomon would have discovered concrete.

Once you have those two things it is just a matter of improving on the model.

So then, Solomon was on the cusp of discovering the industrial revolution, why didn't he? Because he violated God's law and went to Lebanon for Cedars and Egypt for horses. If he had not done that he would have. Maybe not in Solomon's lifetime, but if he honored the principle of making do with what God had given them the Israelites would have invented the steam engine hundreds of years before the Babylonians invaded. It has been about 180 years since we discovered the steam engine. Imagine just for a second that Israel had discovered the steam engine 180 years before the Babylonians invaded.

Now I ask you, if you can imagine that do you think an omniscient God could have imagined that?

And that brings us back to the so called "homeless verses" in 1 Cor.

It is the standard temptation in the church -- go to the elite universities for the cedars and go to Hollywood for the horsepower. Get a pastor from Princeton and get a music ministry that can pull in the crowds. He points out that his is "puffed up", that these works will burn up and leave you with nothing, and that the apostles are nothing like this. They are the "off scouring", they poor, laboring, no gold rings, no fancy cars.

If you bring in the "specialists" then you will turn all the saints into spectators. If you kill their function you never discover the riches hidden in them. Instead "whenever you come together each one has..."

But in this context he says that "God has made foolish the wisdom of the world" -- not future tense but past tense. What is he talking about? This should be a Bible reference, otherwise Paul should give us more explanation. This may not be the "only" interpretation but I think it is reasonable that Solomon's wisdom to disobey God's law can be looked at in light of this verse.

So then, once again let's just blow your mind. Solomon does not disobey God. He needs transportation, he tells the Israelites to figure it out, no one is getting horses from Egypt. They invent a "train". Perhaps cats with wheels running on a concrete track pulled by mules.

They need houses for the workers, they make concrete houses. The nation sticks to this law and they invent the steam engine after a few hundred years. Then 180 years later the Babylonians ride in on horses with bow and arrows and find Israel with trains, high rise apartments, cars, airplanes, etc. That was the destiny of those who obeyed God's command. It would have been the foolishness of living the crucified life.

But instead, what is our destiny now due to Solomon's "wisdom"? War due to one empire after the next. Pollution from industrialization due to 7 billion people on this planet burning fossil fuel. Human society being pushed off a cliff.

God turned the "wisdom of the world" into foolishness because the foolishness of God is wiser than men.