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[zeek]

I was disappointed that so many Evangelical Christians, who consider themselves to be the only true Christians voted for the flagrantly immoral Donald Trump. But, I have heard a number of them say, that they only did it because they saw him as the lesser evil when compared with Hilary Clinton. That makes their choice a little more understandable to me. Especially since many of them watch Fox News 24/7 where Hilary Clinton has been demonized for years. Plus, maybe they are fans of Trump from The Apprentice where he popularized his image for mass consumption. Can we agree that manipulation of the sheeple by the media circus is disgusting? Trump played the populace brilliantly from the get-go planting in our brains the image of himself coming down the escalator like a god descending from the clouds to intercourse with we the mere mortal earthing voter/citizens. Hallelujah! Thank you Trumpus!, not.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by zeek

I was disappointed that so many Evangelical Christians, who consider themselves to be the only true Christians voted for the flagrantly immoral Donald Trump. But, I have heard a number of them say, that they only did it because they saw him as the lesser evil when compared with Hilary Clinton. That makes their choice a little more understandable to me. Especially since many of them watch Fox News 24/7 where Hilary Clinton has been demonized for years. Plus, maybe they are fans of Trump from The Apprentice where he popularized his image for mass consumption. Can we agree that manipulation of the sheeple by the media circus is disgusting? Trump played the populace brilliantly from the get-go planting in our brains the image of himself coming down the escalator like a god descending from the clouds to intercourse with we the mere mortal earthing voter/citizens. Hallelujah! Thank you Trumpus!, not.

Trump is God's chosen and will solve all the problems. That's really all that counts. Don't you follow the prophecies on charisma magazine? Seriously, Trump does pray. So he's doing something right. He prayed for the Apprentice TV ratings. Politics, it's just a game. President is just a job that has to be filled by someone. Who that someone is doesn't change things too much. The debt clock is still ticking. NK still wants to blow up Washington, and Assange is still in London. In these moments it's good to read about the Universality and Centrality of Christ, by W. Lee. And remember the all-inclusive processed and consummated Triune God is in control.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Trump is God's chosen and will solve all the problems. That's really all that counts. Don't you follow the prophecies on charisma magazine? Seriously, Trump does pray. So he's doing something right. He prayed for the Apprentice TV ratings. Politics, it's just a game. President is just a job that has to be filled by someone. Who that someone is doesn't change things too much. The debt clock is still ticking. NK still wants to blow up Washington, and Assange is still in London. In these moments it's good to read about the Universality and Centrality of Christ, by W. Lee. And remember the all-inclusive processed and consummated Triune God is in control.

Yeah Zeek, read "the all inclusive processed and consummated Triune God" by WL and chill out.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Trump is God's chosen and will solve all the problems. That's really all that counts.

Why do we think that Trump is God's chosen? Because God is sovereign?

If so, they does that mean that God thought 8 years of Obama was a good thing? If so then we have to rethink the prior 8 years.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by OBW

Why do we think that Trump is God's chosen? Because God is sovereign?

If so, they does that mean that God thought 8 years of Obama was a good thing? If so then we have to rethink the prior 8 years.

God is good and God is good all the time. So yes. 8 years of Obama was good. Regardless of who is in power, we have to pray for the leaders. Do we have to like them or agree with everything they do. No.

[OBW]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

God is good and God is good all the time. So yes. 8 years of Obama was good. Regardless of who is in power, we have to pray for the leaders. Do we have to like them or agree with everything they do. No.

Finally something that we can at least partly agree on.

We get what we get and we are charged to pray for all of them.

What we may not agree on is whether God is specifically deciding who will be president (at least in all cases). And if I am right on this (that part of God's sovereignty is exercised in restraint as man exercises his free will) and he might only sometimes direct things, then I cannot say that which ones are which and decide that God would vote Republican, or Democrat. It is clear that if he is actively sovereign in all of it that God does not simply "vote Republican" because we have gotten some that are very "not Republican." And I am not sure what to say about the present Republican (if he really is one).

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by OBW

Finally something that we can at least partly agree on.

We get what we get and we are charged to pray for all of them.

What we may not agree on is whether God is specifically deciding who will be president (at least in all cases). And if I am right on this (that part of God's sovereignty is exercised in restraint as man exercises his free will) and he might only sometimes direct things, then I cannot say that which ones are which and decide that God would vote Republican, or Democrat. It is clear that if he is actively sovereign in all of it that God does not simply "vote Republican" because we have gotten some that are very "not Republican." And I am not sure what to say about the present Republican (if he really is one).

I agree that God either puts the leadership in place directly, or He allows it. But pragmatically, we cannot change it, so we have to do the best we can with what we got. What we could do is turn all of the criticisms directed at Trump into a prayer for him about those shortcomings, realizing that God's true purpose in this is to spread the gospel.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I agree that God either puts the leadership in place directly, or He allows it. But pragmatically, we cannot change it, so we have to do the best we can with what we got. What we could do is turn all of the criticisms directed at Trump into a prayer for him about those shortcomings, realizing that God's true purpose in this is to spread the gospel.

Jesus is Lord. The real leadership is in place. The NT does not in any way, shape or form suggest that there is a path for salvation apart from Him and that includes climate change legislation, etc. Because of that WN erroneously teaches that Christians should not be involved in the political process (Post #1).

I see this differently. Apart from the Lord we can do nothing. But if Jesus is one with you then I see no reason why you can't "preach the good news" to the issues. After all the Lord gave us talents to invest and we have been told to go out into the entire world, surely that includes the political arena as well, and preach the gospel. And, He promised to be with us to the end of days.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

I agree that God either puts the leadership in place directly, or He allows it. But pragmatically, we cannot change it, so we have to do the best we can with what we got. What we could do is turn all of the criticisms directed at Trump into a prayer for him about those shortcomings, realizing that God's true purpose in this is to spread the gospel.

Who the president is has nothing to do with spreading the gospel.

And if all we have is prayer we're in trouble.

[awareness]

Originally Posted by Evangelical

Trump is God's chosen

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

And that not only goes for Trump, but for Obama, Bush, Clinton, and all the rest.

I'm on a prophecy forum and they are saying Trump is a Cyrus the Great. He said he'd move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. They believe he will make for the rebuilding of the temple, that must happen for Jesus to return.

Who knows. These rapture nuts might be wrong. Trump could be Nebuchadnezzar.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by awareness

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

And that not only goes for Trump, but for Obama, Bush, Clinton, and all the rest.

I'm on a prophecy forum and they are saying Trump is a Cyrus the Great. He said he'd move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. They believe he will make for the rebuilding of the temple, that must happen for Jesus to return.

Who knows. These rapture nuts might be wrong. Trump could be Nebuchadnezzar.

You'll just have to wait and see.

[Evangelical]

Originally Posted by awareness

Rom 13:1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

And that not only goes for Trump, but for Obama, Bush, Clinton, and all the rest.

I'm on a prophecy forum and they are saying Trump is a Cyrus the Great. He said he'd move the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. They believe he will make for the rebuilding of the temple, that must happen for Jesus to return.

Who knows. These rapture nuts might be wrong. Trump could be Nebuchadnezzar.

Well, America probably has been Babylon the Great for some time now. The political arm of the Roman Empire.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

I was disappointed that so many Evangelical Christians, who consider themselves to be the only true Christians voted for the flagrantly immoral Donald Trump. But, I have heard a number of them say, that they only did it because they saw him as the lesser evil when compared with Hilary Clinton. That makes their choice a little more understandable to me. Especially since many of them watch Fox News 24/7 where Hilary Clinton has been demonized for years. Plus, maybe they are fans of Trump from The Apprentice where he popularized his image for mass consumption. Can we agree that manipulation of the sheeple by the media circus is disgusting? Trump played the populace brilliantly from the get-go planting in our brains the image of himself coming down the escalator like a god descending from the clouds to intercourse with we the mere mortal earthing voter/citizens. Hallelujah! Thank you Trumpus!, not.

I look at it differently. I figure the best thing that could possibly have happened to Clinton was to run against Trump. If she can't beat that guy then she should not be president. If you told me she was going to run against Trump and to put a cherry on top he would insult Gold Star parents coming out of the convention and just to make sure there is no way you could lose the Billy Bush tape would also be released. If she were honest she would realize she was given a gift in running against trump, they put whipped cream on that gift with his insults of various war heroes and they put a cherry on top with his very clear admittance of sexual misconduct and deviant behavior.

But instead she want to blame her "enemies". She is her biggest enemy.

Comey had no affect on me and Putin didn't either. Putting classified emails on her private server to get around freedom of information, and using her position at the State department to enrich her self through her foundation. Those are the two reasons I would not, under any circumstances vote for her.

To me this last election was like going to a restaurant during a blackout and they say "look, this chicken has been out for a few days and smells bad" the other choice is this cole slaw made with mayo that has also been out for a few days and smells bad. Which one do you want?

I chose to fast.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I look at it differently. I figure the best thing that could possibly have happened to Clinton was to run against Trump. If she can't beat that guy then she should not be president. If you told me she was going to run against Trump and to put a cherry on top he would insult Gold Star parents coming out of the convention and just to make sure there is no way you could lose the Billy Bush tape would also be released. If she were honest she would realize she was given a gift in running against trump, they put whipped cream on that gift with his insults of various war heroes and they put a cherry on top with his very clear admittance of sexual misconduct and deviant behavior.

But instead she want to blame her "enemies". She is her biggest enemy.

Comey had no affect on me and Putin didn't either. Putting classified emails on her private server to get around freedom of information, and using her position at the State department to enrich her self through her foundation. Those are the two reasons I would not, under any circumstances vote for her.

To me this last election was like going to a restaurant during a blackout and they say "look, this chicken has been out for a few days and smells bad" the other choice is this cole slaw made with mayo that has also been out for a few days and smells bad. Which one do you want?

I chose to fast.

I "fasted" during the primary, but that was also for another reason. But not against Hillary. She was far too scary.

I agree Trump did and said stupid things. Ole zeek still has no clue why Trump won and Hillary lost. Talk about stupid -- when Trump said McCain was not a war hero because he prefers soldiers who did not get caught. What? McCain was a pilot shot down, his dad was a distinguished admiral, and he was tortured in prison for years. Now I don't really care for all McCain's decisions -- like dumping his wife after coming home -- and his policies -- like not opposing abortion -- but who would dare say he was not a hero?

Then Trump never learned a thing, and went after that gold star Muslim family that lost their son in the war. Talk about stupid! Perhaps Bannon and Conway talked some sense into him.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

I "fasted" during the primary, but that was also for another reason. But not against Hillary. She was far too scary.

I agree Trump did and said stupid things. Ole zeek still has no clue why Trump won and Hillary lost. Talk about stupid -- when Trump said McCain was not a war hero because he prefers soldiers who did not get caught. What? McCain was a pilot shot down, his dad was a distinguished admiral, and he was tortured in prison for years. Now I don't really care for all McCain's decisions -- like dumping his wife after coming home -- and his policies -- like not opposing abortion -- but who would dare say he was not a hero?

Then Trump never learned a thing, and went after that gold star Muslim family that lost their son in the war. Talk about stupid! Perhaps Bannon and Conway talked some sense into him.

People are fed up with Washington insider politics as usual. Trump ran against that. That's basically why he won and why Sanders would have been more effective against him than Clinton.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

People are fed up with Washington insider politics as usual. Trump ran against that. That's basically why he won and why Sanders would have been more effective against him than Clinton.

That's just your speculation.

I have prolly heard a dozen excuses for Hillary, none of which owned up to her being crooked, incompetent, and connected with too many dead people.

Regardless of Bernie's popularity, he still ran as a socialist against basically a populist outsider. After 8 years of Obama, the country was moving right, as evidenced by Republican gains since 2010.

Since the Republican congress can't work together, watch for the country to move left again in 2018.

[zeek]

Originally Posted by Ohio

That's just your speculation.

No kidding?! I just come here for arrogance therapy.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by zeek

No kidding?! I just come here for arrogance therapy.

I do think you could use some arrogance therapy. You came to the right place.

Is that like anger management?

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

No kidding?! I just come here for arrogance therapy.

I come here to learn patience. Also this forces me to pray for wisdom, another benefit of this forum.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by zeek

People are fed up with Washington insider politics as usual. Trump ran against that. That's basically why he won and why Sanders would have been more effective against him than Clinton.

Not just that. As much as he comes across as an idiot, he also comes across as "frank", to the point.

The reason the Billy Bush thing didn't destroy him is that he doesn't obfuscate the way politicians do. The coverup is often bigger than the crime. There is no cover up, he simply refuses to give us his tax return.

Also, he comes across as someone who might be able to bring jobs back.

Remember, this was the least popular president ever, received 3 million votes less than the loser. This was not a Ronald Reagan victory. There is no indication that those who voted for him did so for any other reason than that they hoped he might be better.

[Ohio]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Remember, this was the least popular president ever, received 3 million votes less than the loser.

Regarding popularity, can we ever believe the polls again?

Regarding votes, that's like the Super Bowl loser declaring victory because their team amassed more yards -- a totally different game with a totally different strategy.

How do we know whether 3 million solid Blue State Republicans just stayed home because their votes were meaningless? My brother lives in Sacramento, CA and feels voting there has basically become a waste of time for conservatives.

[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by Ohio

Regarding popularity, can we ever believe the polls again?

Regarding votes, that's like the Super Bowl loser declaring victory because their team amassed more yards -- a totally different game with a totally different strategy.

How do we know whether 3 million solid Blue State Republicans just stayed home because their votes were meaningless? My brother lives in Sacramento, CA and feels voting there has basically become a waste of time for conservatives.

There is no doubt that one of the by products of the Electoral college is that you have "blue states" and "red states" and this reduces the number of voters. If you know how the state is going to vote then your vote is meaningless.

The candidates know this as well and only campaign in swing states. Candidates deemphasize 40 states.

Another very negative impact of this are policies that do not make sense, but one or two states like them, hence they are untouchable.

So then it is anti democratic and promotes policies that are not advantageous for the majority.

Ultimately this results in a feeling of disenfranchisement. People who aren't involved in the process and don't feel like this government represents them.

A step halfway towards full democracy is to only award 100% of electoral votes if the person wins by 10% or more. Less than that you divide the electoral votes proportionally.